Fitting Evo IX Drivetrain to Mk7.5 Fiesta ST for AWD?

[LilPocketRocket]

So, like many people on this thread, I've been tossing around the ludicrous idea of wanting to convert our cars to AWD. From what I've seen, there have been a couple of Fiestas running either fully-custom racing setups; or some madman cut up a Focus RS to transplant its guts into the Fiesta. Either way, you're looking at spending many thousands of dollars in both parts and labor just to get there. Why do the Honda guys have AWD conversions for their cars all day long? Because enough of them asked for it, and a couple of companies were smart enough to build their conversions on a jig. Realistically, how many people here would pay a flat fee of, oh, $12,000, to get their cars to launch like a GT-R?



As I am in the process of buying my second car (an F13 M6), I figure that I'll keep the Fiesta around and turn it into a proper rally car. Companies like M-Sport have proven the Fiesta's worth on the dirt, but I rather not shell out $250,000 for a full-on WRC car that isn't even road-legal. Whenever I think of fast AWD cars that aren't GT-Rs or VW/Audi products, I instantly think of the Evo. They can have absolutely mind-boggling traction, and the aftermarket for them to sustain power has grown to be immense. I mean, how hard would it be to, 1) Slap in a MoTeC piggyback ECU, 2) CAD an adapter to mate the bell housing of an Evo IX transmission (part no. 2500A123), 3) Fabricate new left-side and rear motor mounts, 4) Engineer adjusted-length torque tubes and axles, 5) Use a modified version of the Evo IX's rear subframe to utilize the mounting points already on the Fiesta and fit the Evo IX's differential that doesn't utilize an AYC pump like the Evo X, and 6) Relocate the fuel cell to the trunk using a Fuel Safe Spare Tire Fuel Cell (part no. SA130-RS2)?



My interest in this only got reignited after I found a company by the name of Verkline the other day, which specializes in making custom-designed tubular subframes through CAD. I saw their subframes for the GR Yaris and was impressed to see they're being tested on the Nurburgring as we speak. Additionally, the US distributor for this Polish company is only twenty minutes away from me, and I've been thinking of emailing the company directly to see if some guys across the pond would be interested in producing a design we can come up with. I am attending a university with an immense engineering school, and I feel like throwing one of the mechanical engineers a bone, but I figured I'd ask the people of this forum to see what solutions they might come up with. We need to use parts that are plentiful and capable, so why don't we keep it JDM since our cars are glorified Mazdas?

 

[Mycooking]

I believe the Ford EcoSport is based on the Fiesta and many chassis components. I would wager the AWD setup from that car would be easier to engineer for use in the ST. Only downside is finding a manual trans to swap in with the output shaft but I wouldn't be surprised if Ford Europe has a 6spd manual for their AWD cars. It's sometging I've been looking into for possible future big budget upgrades/modding.

 

[esp_martin]

I believe the Ford EcoSport is based on the Fiesta and many chassis components. I would wager the AWD setup from that car would be easier to engineer for use in the ST. Only downside is finding a manual trans to swap in with the output shaft but I wouldn't be surprised if Ford Europe has a 6spd manual for their AWD cars. It's sometging I've been looking into for possible future big budget upgrades/modding.

Completely agree with @Mycooking and would love to see this done. The ecosport would be the smartest choice and a quick search states the 2016 and earlier ecosports had a 6speed. My guess, an Australian manufacturer/aftermarket parts company would be your best bet.

After that? I think it would be march smarter to cannibalize a mazdaspeed 6's AWD system since that utilized a transverse setup and probably had Ford parts.

As others have said, if it was at all realistic someone would have done it by now. I don't think you need to make it significantly harder by using Mitsubishi parts on top of it all.

 

[thecman02]

I'm definitely more in the EVO drivetrain boat. Having an AWD could handle pushing the boundaries of what we can do with the engine and take it with a smile. I'm not really familiar with what the awd systems can handle that come on the small ecoboosts. I wouldn't do MSP6 because in the big scheme of things they aren't plentiful. The driveline was used in a car run of two years. Evo driveline have been same configuration minus cool bits from EVO IV-IX.

At the end of the day if it is easy to retrofit a ecosport setup I'm all for that too, but I can't imagine it isn't much less work.

 

[LilPocketRocket]

I'm definitely more in the EVO drivetrain boat. Having an AWD could handle pushing the boundaries of what we can do with the engine and take it with a smile. I'm not really familiar with what the awd systems can handle that come on the small ecoboosts. I wouldn't do MSP6 because in the big scheme of things they aren't plentiful. The driveline was used in a car run of two years. Evo driveline have been same configuration minus cool bits from EVO IV-IX.

At the end of the day if it is easy to retrofit a ecosport setup I'm all for that too, but I can't imagine it isn't much less work.

In my opinion, I don’t think the Ecosport drivetrain will be able to handle the torque our engines produce without a significant revision of the transmission itself, which sort of defeats the purpose of having to import a standard transmission from the Ecosports abroad. Not to mention, there are already some FiST owners installing K24 and FoST blocks in their cars. Eventually, there will need to be a long-term solution for our cars to handle some serious power. The Honda guys started out with a first-gen CR-V and worked their way up from there. If executed, even the normal Fiestas and even Mazda2 models would be able to accommodate the swap.

With that being said, I think the rear subframe from an Ecosport might be a good starting point to see how we can integrate a near-final design for all the drivetrain components to fit into. I’m sure there will be a lot of drilling and tapping involved to make it fit, but I think the best bet is to avoid having to cut into the floor pan of the car to fit the shafts and transmission, as fabrication rates are what drives up the cost of a swap. Once my M6 is delivered, I will certainly start looking for an Ecosport rear carriage and cut material as necessary to bolt it in.

Maybe MazdaSpeed6 components would be more-accommodating, but the aftermarket for reinforcing those drivetrains for power is still mostly relying on custom work, not taking into account the low-volume production of the vehicle. The Evo transaxle and rear differential are already plentiful as thecman02 suggested, and their AWD systems are already race-proven and are rear-wheel drive biased. Whether the consumer of the kit is racing on a rally stage or a road course, the car would be what the FoRS should’ve been from the start.

 

[@Salty_FiST]

Following and interested in adapting our FiSTs into and. When I first got the car, I hesitated on going in any one direction without looking into if it had been done before. I couldn't find anything so moved on with the build I have and am in the process of improving.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[LilPocketRocket]

As a side note from this conversation, I got the car pretty sideways last night. Some butt hole decided to veer into my lane, and I instinctively slammed on my brakes. Doing that while hitting a slope on the highway (if you live in Dallas, you'll know of the horrible roads) caused my car to lose traction entirely, and I ended up being 90 degrees horizontal concerning the direction of travel. Luckily no one else was on the road to crash into, but the unpredictability of a FWD "drift" really got me thinking of ditching the FWD setup last night.



I took a look at the underbody of an Ecosport 2.0 (the AWD one), and it seems that other than the substitution of a rear axle beam for a crossmember, and the modified gas tank to accommodate the driveshaft, there's not a whole lot different. What I did highlight, however, was the difference in exhaust placement. I noticed that there were two different manifolds for the Ecosport (one for the 1.0 and another for the 2.0). I thought it was simply because they were different blocks, but looking closer at the bends, it seems that the catalytic converter is more offset to the right on the Ecosport than it is on the Fiesta. Additionally, the exhaust mid-section is hugging the frame rail and resting to the right of the rear chassis brace from the factory. Below is a picture of the Fiesta's underbody:


Notice how the bends coincide with the exhaust shield present on the Fiesta (one long bend and straight to the downpipe), while there is additional shielding on the underbody of the Ecosport to which the exhaust DOES NOT coincide with the shielding present with respect to the Fiesta (two separate bends to join the catalytic converter's flex pipe). Besides purchasing the crossmember, control/trailing arms, and knuckles from the Ecosport 2.0, it seems that getting the exhaust will also be beneficial. A custom downpipe seems like it'll be required. Luckily I have a spare catless downpipe to sacrifice. Suspension geometry doesn't look to be too terribly different from one another, which will certainly save some coin on this endeavor. Maybe the Ecosport 2.0's gas tank would also bolt in, but I rather relocate the tank to the trunk so I have easier access to utilize an upgraded fuel pump for my 4-port.



Once I were to get the rear suspension situated, I'll be looking into transaxles to see what the best option is. Considering the title of this post, I'll be trying my original route in purchasing the 5-speed transmission from the Evo and taking it to a local CNC shop to machine custom output shafts, an adapter plate, a flywheel, and a blockoff plate for the deletion of the driveshafts (similar to the blockoff plate make for Porsche transaxles pictures above). (I'd continue to run the car FWD until I can figure out the best route for installing the driveshaft(s), differential, and rear axles.) Lastly, I'll be taking a visit to a transmission shop to get a custom carbon clutch pack installed.

Am I crazy for wanting to jump off the deep-end?

 

[vivix]

Id do a search on https://car-part.com to see what's out there in your area. Looks like tons of Ecosports near me with front end damage. Maybe one of those yards will let you take some measurements for the subframe

 

[esp_martin]

As a side note from this conversation, I got the car pretty sideways last night. Some butt hole decided to veer into my lane, and I instinctively slammed on my brakes. Doing that while hitting a slope on the highway (if you live in Dallas, you'll know of the horrible roads) caused my car to lose traction entirely, and I ended up being 90 degrees horizontal concerning the direction of travel. Luckily no one else was on the road to crash into, but the unpredictability of a FWD "drift" really got me thinking of ditching the FWD setup last night.

View attachment 52284

I took a look at the underbody of an Ecosport 2.0 (the AWD one), and it seems that other than the substitution of a rear axle beam for a crossmember, and the modified gas tank to accommodate the driveshaft, there's not a whole lot different. What I did highlight, however, was the difference in exhaust placement. I noticed that there were two different manifolds for the Ecosport (one for the 1.0 and another for the 2.0). I thought it was simply because they were different blocks, but looking closer at the bends, it seems that the catalytic converter is more offset to the right on the Ecosport than it is on the Fiesta. Additionally, the exhaust mid-section is hugging the frame rail and resting to the right of the rear chassis brace from the factory. Below is a picture of the Fiesta's underbody:

View attachment 52285
Notice how the bends coincide with the exhaust shield present on the Fiesta (one long bend and straight to the downpipe), while there is additional shielding on the underbody of the Ecosport to which the exhaust DOES NOT coincide with the shielding present with respect to the Fiesta (two separate bends to join the catalytic converter's flex pipe). Besides purchasing the crossmember, control/trailing arms, and knuckles from the Ecosport 2.0, it seems that getting the exhaust will also be beneficial. A custom downpipe seems like it'll be required. Luckily I have a spare catless downpipe to sacrifice. Suspension geometry doesn't look to be too terribly different from one another, which will certainly save some coin on this endeavor. Maybe the Ecosport 2.0's gas tank would also bolt in, but I rather relocate the tank to the trunk so I have easier access to utilize an upgraded fuel pump for my 4-port.

View attachment 52286

Once I were to get the rear suspension situated, I'll be looking into transaxles to see what the best option is. Considering the title of this post, I'll be trying my original route in purchasing the 5-speed transmission from the Evo and taking it to a local CNC shop to machine custom output shafts, an adapter plate, a flywheel, and a blockoff plate for the deletion of the driveshafts (similar to the blockoff plate make for Porsche transaxles pictures above). (I'd continue to run the car FWD until I can figure out the best route for installing the driveshaft(s), differential, and rear axles.) Lastly, I'll be taking a visit to a transmission shop to get a custom carbon clutch pack installed.

Am I crazy for wanting to jump off the deep-end?

I appreciate the drive and the creativity. That said you are crazy. If you're looking for advice I think you should try to find someone (anyone) who has done this conversion first. Better to stand on someone else's shoulders first and get closer to succeeding then to get bogged down making similar mistakes as others have before.

edit: crazy in a good way. just so i'm clear, i wish you nothing but the best of luck and hope you can make it work!

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm not sure just how 'street legal' it could ever be, but there is a company which does this conversion, here, in the USA for full-on, open class ARA rally cars.

https://www.rktmotors.com/

 

[LilPocketRocket]

I'm not sure just how 'street legal' it could ever be, but there is a company which does this conversion, here, in the USA for full-on, open class ARA rally cars.

https://www.rktmotors.com/

It seems they used a rear tubular subframe like I was planning on, but the location of the exhaust remained in the same configuration, resulting in 1) Running a wider-diameter exhaust, and, 2) Having to modify the floor pan to make everything fit. That being said, it looks like they made a jig for a FRONT tubular subframe. If that's the case, hopefully, RKT will sell a front subframe to the rest of us. I'll try to build the first couple rear subframe prototypes on a jig, then I'll plan on throwing the dimensions in CAD to see how much and what dimensions of steel tubing I'll be needing to build multiple kits for the future.

 

[WannabeST]

If you are serious about this AWD conversion. The easiest way I've seen this done on other builds is
1 - You buy an evo
2 - cut off the exterior of the evo and sell it
3 - cut off the exterior of the fiesta
4 - mount the fiesta skin/shell exterior to the evo guts
5- send it and enjoy
(Or instead of an evo, anythign close in distance from front to rear wheels and AWD)

 

[Dpro]

Or you just buy an AWD car and call it a day. Seriously our cars are fun for what they are and yes OP you are nuts . If you are not trying to build a full on spec rally car for racing and even then you’re just burning money with a flame thrower. Enjoy our car for what it is. If you are over FWD then either buy a RWD or get GR Corolla.