Going to E30

[RubberDucky_82]

@jobridge44 has asked what would go well with the E30 tune. I think we're all correct here. It's just a matter of opinion how important the FMIC is.

The FMIC isn't required to increase power. However, it does increase the consistency at which that power can be made. This is agreed upon by all here. Hopefully this clarifies things for the OP.
I'm no tuner, but if the OP is super concerned about budget (I can relate), I would suggest picking a reputable tuner and asking their advice about the need for an FMIC or other supporting mods. All the tuners seem to have reputations for being responsive and supportive of the community.

 

[JDG]

@jobridge44 has asked what would go well with the E30 tune. I think we're all correct here. It's just a matter of opinion how important the FMIC is.

The FMIC isn't required to increase power. However, it does increase the consistency at which that power can be made. This is agreed upon by all here. Hopefully this clarifies things for the OP.
I'm no tuner, but if the OP is super concerned about budget (I can relate), I would suggest picking a reputable tuner and asking their advice about the need for an FMIC or other supporting mods. All the tuners seem to have reputations for being responsive and supportive of the community.

Fair enough, but I still stick with my position that an intercooler is needed.

My personal opinion is that the intercooler should be the first modification to the engine. Before a tune or anything else.

Heat is what kills power and subsequently kills engines in high stress environments. Hence why I regret not getting an aftermarket radiator sooner. I didn’t understand how much the added power from more boost and timing added heat to the engine and therefore the cooling system. Just hoping people can learn from my mistakes so they don’t make them themselves.


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[CSM]

@jobridge44 The FMIC isn't required to increase power. However, it does increase the consistency at which that power can be made. This is agreed upon by all here. Hopefully this clarifies things for the OP.

My personal opinion is that the intercooler should be the first modification to the engine. Before a tune or anything else.Heat is what kills power and subsequently kills engines in high stress environments.

Agree with both of these statements. You don't necessarily need an IC to run E30, but holy shit, the stock intercooler is absolutely garbage in warmer months and will heat soak after a single pull, robbing you of all your gains from your tune.

So while its not needed, I would argue its practical. Whats the point in making peak power for 15 or so seconds before all that power goes away due to heat soak?

 

[Brianmc27]

My car ran like shit here during the summer on the stock FMIC. On my Stage 1 91 I needed to put ~E20 in it just to avoid misfires and negative corrections. Even then I still got them.

 

[JDG]

Agree with both of these statements. You don't necessarily need an IC to run E30, but holy shit, the stock intercooler is absolutely garbage in warmer months and will heat soak after a single pull, robbing you of all your gains from your tune.

So while its not needed, I would argue its practical. Whats the point in making peak power for 15 or so seconds before all that power goes away due to heat soak?

I always was too verbose. This is a nice, concise way to say what I did in 1000 words LOL

 

[danbfree]

Could not disagree more. You saw zero additional power after upgrading your intercooler. How are you measuring this lack of power increase? Are you talking about a single 3rd gear pull? Or are you talking about a track stint or a back roads romp where you are building boost over and over again? Have you never experienced heat soak in your Fiesta with the OEM intercooler? If so, I am very surprised. I was able to get charge temperature above 100F on winter back roads driving on the stock tune, let alone with 50% more torque output on E30.

Air density and horsepower are synonymous. And if you don’t want to take my word for it, take a look at some of the white papers written by Gale Banks of Banks Power. He goes into incredible detail regarding the importance of cooling the charge air of all engines, especially forced induction engines in order to make solid, repeatable power. Key word being repeatable.

The whole advantage of E30 is increased ignition advancement. Most tunes also result in more boost pressure. Compression generates heat, as does advancement of ignition timing. Not upgrading the stock intercooler with one of greater surface area for ambient air flow allows this heat to stay in the charge air stream and results in lower air density. This means less fuel can be added to the combustion chamber. The result is less power. This is just science and math, so I am not sure I understand your experiences here.

You are missing my entire point, e30 runs as cool as 91/93 tunes overall, so don't think you need one any more than any other tune just to run e30 successfully, end of main point, that's all I was trying to say in regards to this situation...

Now, of course, absolutely you will have that power FAR more *consistently* in the summer with an IC upgrade, but just as much as running any tune, so getting an IC when you can is a great idea for anyone tuned period, especially as summer approaches... I personally don't race other than drags once or twice a year for fun, so if tracking that's different too... But I would say the VAST majority of people only do a pull or two at a time, and I noticed with experimenting that it's when doing a 3rd full pull in a row in summer heat you will absolutely heatsoak, I hit 145 once, but it had to be 100 degrees and a 3rd full consecutive pull to get there...

So sorry if I was trying to keep things simple, but you are preaching to the choir about the rest.

 

[danbfree]

My car ran like shit here during the summer on the stock FMIC. On my Stage 1 91 I needed to put ~E20 in it just to avoid misfires and negative corrections. Even then I still got them.

Cali 91 is garbage, more like 90 octane, that is 100% normal with any 91 tune on Cali gas, so it's especially important to have an e30 tune down there where e85 is readily available... It's all I run when I drive down there and the low cost of e85 makes it even cheaper to fill up even with some mileage loss, so having an e30 tune gives you excellent power *and* a cheaper fillup, I just wish there was more than one station in all of Portland!

 

[Hypergram]

I have stage 1 and E30 from Dizzy, waiting until i get my FMIC for christmas to load my E30, just for delayed gratification purposes.

When you do get your intercooler, I highly recommend a Whoosh V3. It dramatically reduces charge temps and is an amazing deal. Besides that, the Bravo Alpha is another great one and is the biggest intercoolers you can get without a lot of cutting. The install is simple enough too. Just get some hair spray and extra clamps for the charge pipes and you're good to go!

 

[danbfree]

Agree with both of these statements. You don't necessarily need an IC to run E30, but holy shit, the stock intercooler is absolutely garbage in warmer months and will heat soak after a single pull, robbing you of all your gains from your tune.

So while its not needed, I would argue its practical. Whats the point in making peak power for 15 or so seconds before all that power goes away due to heat soak?

I had my stock IC for well over a year and I did a ton of experimenting... it would take me 3 full pulls in a row in 100 degree heat to heat soak my stock IC, so I don't know what else to say, when are you going to need more pulls than that on the street? OK, sure, I even go for rally drives and that's different too but it's also not the end of the world to heatsoak either, you just don't get as much power, it doesn't *hurt* anything... YES, it's is 100% the best single mod to get, but it's not life or death with any tune at all, I enjoyed the crap out of e30 with my stock IC, if anything charge temps stayed lower than pump... I'm just tired of people saying you HAVE to get one, that's horseshit, PERIOD and is a disservice to those who are in the majority who do a pull or 2 at a time, and only hurts in the summer. At that point out of being stubborn, one is literally depriving someone of enjoying their car for now by trying to imply you HAVE to get one or you will heatsoak INSTANTLY... Screw that, it's just wrong! I've made my point, people can choose to do what they want with their cars, but I stick to facts and not just pushing a strong opinion on others, so I'll see myself out here... Good luck OP! Enjoy the car now on any tune, stock IC will perform just as bad on 91 than e30, so wait for nothing if you'd like, you are better off learning the differences now, but just wanted to get the facts out there.

 

[Brianmc27]

When you do get your intercooler, I highly recommend a Whoosh V3. It dramatically reduces charge temps and is an amazing deal. Besides that, the Bravo Alpha is another great one and is the biggest intercoolers you can get without a lot of cutting. The install is simple enough too. Just get some hair spray and extra clamps for the charge pipes and you're good to go!

I’ve tasked my wife with getting me a V3 for Xmas. Now I just wait.

 

[danbfree]

When you do get your intercooler, I highly recommend a Whoosh V3. It dramatically reduces charge temps and is an amazing deal. Besides that, the Bravo Alpha is another great one and is the biggest intercoolers you can get without a lot of cutting. The install is simple enough too. Just get some hair spray and extra clamps for the charge pipes and you're good to go!

Anything more than a V1 is a waste on a stock turbo, to be clear, anything bigger is for added cooling on turbo upgraded cars.. but I do agree the V3 is the sweet spot if you are stock for now and might upgrade to hybrid later...

 

[gtx3076]

Fair enough, but I still stick with my position that an intercooler is needed.

My personal opinion is that the intercooler should be the first modification to the engine. Before a tune or anything else.

Heat is what kills power and subsequently kills engines in high stress environments. Hence why I regret not getting an aftermarket radiator sooner. I didn’t understand how much the added power from more boost and timing added heat to the engine and therefore the cooling system. Just hoping people can learn from my mistakes so they don’t make them themselves.


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I made 20whp 33wtq on e30 compared to my 93 tune. I'm not sure what my overall gains were from stock, but that's with the stock intercooler. Guys that are in boost constantly will value an IC more than guys that only occasionally hit max boost doing a quick highway pull. Again it's not a PREREQUISITE to an E30 tune. I don't want to tell guys they have to spend hundreds of more dollars than is necessary.

An accessport (or other tuner) IS necessary to run E30, a better intercooler is not.

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[Hypergram]

I’ve tasked my wife with getting me a V3 for Xmas. Now I just wait.

Good luck! Also, Ron will spray his logo on it if you ask him too. It's pretty dope when you take out the horizontal bottom grill. Also his street spec rmm is a dream as well. Just bring a rubber mallet and some lube when you try and install it.

 

[Hypergram]

Anything more than a V1 is a waste on a stock turbo, to be clear, anything bigger is for added cooling on turbo upgraded cars.. but I do agree the V3 is the sweet spot if you are stock for now and might upgrade to hybrid later...

That was my mindset when I bought it. I'd rather spend the extra $100 on the off chance I do upgrade the turbo in the future.

 

[Ford ST]

I'm going bravo alpha in the spring stock turbo for life probably.
I would have done it sooner but trying to be a responsible adult seems to always get in the way.

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[Fisto]

I made 20whp 33wtq on e30 compared to my 93 tune. I'm not sure what my overall gains were from stock, but that's with the stock intercooler. Guys that are in boost constantly will value an IC more than guys that only occasionally hit max boost doing a quick highway pull. Again it's not a PREREQUISITE to an E30 tune. I don't want to tell guys they have to spend hundreds of more dollars than is necessary.

An accessport (or other tuner) IS necessary to run E30, a better intercooler is not.

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At the risk of sounding glib, the original question was, "What additional mods would go well with the AP and the E30 tune?"

I'd say we are all in agreement that an upgraded intercooler goes well with any and all mods. For some of us, the recommendation is that it is vital to get the most from your modifications.

 

[Brianmc27]

Good luck! Also, Ron will spray his logo on it if you ask him too. It's pretty dope when you take out the horizontal bottom grill. Also his street spec rmm is a dream as well. Just bring a rubber mallet and some lube when you try and install it.
View attachment 24771

I would love yellow, but his is a bit to bright for me. I’m picky on my color matching.



I’ve had his RMM on for a few months and it’s been great.

 

[gtx3076]

At the risk of sounding glib, the original question was, "What additional mods would go well with the AP and the E30 tune?"

I'd say we are all in agreement that an upgraded intercooler goes well with any and all mods. For some of us, the recommendation is that it is vital to get the most from your modifications.

I understood the question I disagreed with answers like this "The FMIC is #1 though. If you are going to jump to E30 right off the bat, you NEED that additional cooling. "

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[JDG]

I understood the question I disagreed with answers like this "The FMIC is #1 though. If you are going to jump to E30 right off the bat, you NEED that additional cooling. "

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Despite the fact that we disagree, I think it was a solid discussion for future folks curious on this topic.

 

[CSM]

Solid discussion here.

OP, if you do get an intercooler, and you have any thought at all of upgrading to a bigger turbo, make sure you get a really good IC. Mountune, Cobb, Whoosh V1....a turbo upgrade will push these IC to their limits (I know from experience). Alpha Bravo, CPE, Whoosh V3 are all good options

I'll leave it at that