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Hello Everyone!!! New Member here!!! Not Very Happy with Ford at the Moment.

Messages
418
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101
Location
Waukesha
#41
I suddenly don't feel so bad getting quoted $800 to install my new Spec clutch and Flywheel. Granted that's just labor but sheesh. Good luck man!
 


OP
S
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32
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Location
Haymarket
Thread Starter #42
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Not sure why no one in the DC area has chimed in yet. Maybe everyone is on vacation.
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
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7,152
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#46
I don't have any experience with the clutches on these (or ANY other FWD) cars either, but if I had a way to get there (I am currently 'hoofing it' until my ordered car arrives), I would help as an 'extra set of hands' to help someone who knows WTF they ARE doing. ;)

After reading the Quaife install thread, I even have qualms/doubts/reservations about letting someone who has done that 100 times install one on my brand new car, let alone even DREAM of attempting it myself (even IF I had the space/facilities to do so, I do NOT).
The WHOLE gear cluster pack/shafts must come out and go back in PERFECTLY aligned!
That's BESIDES the coin they would get for it added to the $1100.00 for the Wavetrac I would use (WISH this was a FACTORY option!!!). :(
 


Messages
56
Likes
8
Location
San Diego
#47
I also have a full lift in my garage.
Just the fact that you have a full lift has got to pretty much guarantee a forum member or two will chime in and help out. Most of us would jump at the chance to make friends with someone local with a lift. I hope you get it worked out. And tell the wife to quit drag racing at stoplights! [burnout]
 


OP
S
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Location
Haymarket
Thread Starter #48
Thanks for the vote of confidence. This far no takers.
 


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20
Location
Santa Rosa
#49
Unfortunately with wear items Ford does not have to prove anything. You have to prove that you/the owner driving did not cause the wear to the clutch. You'll need to hire a lawyer and an expert. If the expert believes it was a bad clutch from the start, not failing based on wear, then you take it to court and Ford would need to hire their own clutch expert and and they would present their findings. If you could convince a judge based on your expert testimony then you could possibly get the judge to make ford pay for both your clutch and legal fees which would be far more than the 2k for clutch repair.

This happened to a friend a number of years ago. Same thing his wife had used clutches for years with no issue. It turned out that she was using the clutch as a dead pedal not pressing in but wearing the clutch premature. Would the clutch be fully depressed while waiting at the light, would be another possibility if the seat is not adjusted correctly.

Yes the clutch could have been bad from new. However proving that takes money time and hassle worth way more than 2k.
Personally I would talk to the owner of the dealer and tell them you believe the clutch was bad to begin with but proving yes or no would cost too much time or money. I'm willing to pay your cost on labor and products to fix it and keep me as a customer.
 


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56
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8
Location
San Diego
#50
How did you manage to get the blown up clutch out for the pics? Did the dealer pull it out, and if so how much did they charge for that?
 


OP
S
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32
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Location
Haymarket
Thread Starter #51
I took the car to the dealer and they nearly guaranteed me that the issue was with the master slave cylinder which is COVERED UNDER WARRANTY so I authorized them to open it up and check and lo and behold it ended up being the clutch. That just tells me that he does not know what he is talking about and or they are just plain crooked. They want $1100 for diagnosis if I want to go and pick it up as is e.g. have it towed someplace else. They said the book states 8 hours of labor when in fact they had it out in less than three hours. They charge what the book tells them. Does not seem like a fair practice. If the book states 8 hours and they get it done in a fraction of the time why would you then proceed in charging your customer for hours or work when it only took 2.5 hours. That is plain shady practices.
 


OP
S
Messages
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Location
Haymarket
Thread Starter #52
FORD DENIED MY CLAIM EVEN THOUGH I HAVE ONLY HAD MY VEHICLE FOR 17 MONTHS WITH 17K MILES. SHAME ON YOU FORD.

I purchased a brand new Ford Fiesta ST from Sheehy Ford in Warrenton Virginia. I have owned the car for 17 months and it has 17K miles on it currently. My wife is the only driver of this car and she has been driving a vehicle with a clutch for 31 years with no clutch failures in all her time driving a vehicle with a clutch.

On July 31st 2016 my wife was coming home from dropping our daughter off at work and all of a sudden with no warning at all, the clutch in the vehicle failed to operate leaving my wife stranded in the middle of a busy road.

The vehicle was towed to the dealer where we purchased it and it sat there for three days. I asked the service tech what he thought was wrong with the car and he said he felt confident that it was the master slave cylinder that was faulty and that it would be covered under warranty. Fast forward to the day they removed the transmission for further inspection/diagnosis and they determined that the clutch was the culprit and that it was due to improper operation or abuse.

My wife is 50 years old and has been driving a car with a standard transmission for over thirty years and has never abused any of her vehicles. Stating that it was improperly driven is an insult and saying it was abused is pure speculation I firmly believe this clutch was defective and failed prematurely. I escalated this issue up to Ford's customer service reps and they all determined the same thing the dealer determined. They flat out denied my warranty claim based upon pictures and based upon a determination from the dealer that the clutch was abused or improperly driven. I spoke with a few professionals and distributed the photos of the clutch online and everyone I spoke to said that a clutch should last at minimum of 60K miles and most should last much longer to even 160K miles. The dealer claimed that this was a high performance clutch and I made the statement that if it is a high performance clutch then why did it fail prematurely?

This car is still under the manufacturers bumper to bumper 3 year 36K miles warranty and there is no reason this clutch should have failed other than it was defective or installed incorrectly at the factory.

Now they want us to pay nearly $2,000 dollars to replace a clutch in a vehicle that we only paid $20K within less than 18 months of ownership.

I have contacted my local ABC, and NBC news outlets to further make aware the problems I am having with Ford and to vet my severe dissatisfaction with the way you treat your customers and the fact you are not standing behind a product you make.

Attached are some photos of a clutch that failed at 17K miles. I have a 2004 Subaru with the original clutch of which I took with me to Germany while I was deployed with the military. I drove this car on the German Autobahn and once around the famed Nurburgring and it still shows no signs of even the beginnings of a failure, yet I buy a car that is marketed as a performance vehicle from Ford and I can not even get through two years of ownership and I am being forced to pay for a clutch that failed way before it's time. If you value me as a customer, please step up to the plate and fix this problem.

V/r

Steven Watts
 


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480
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132
Location
Glendora
#53
It's interesting that they diagnosed the slave cylinder first. Did they actually look at that part? Like remove and test it? If the slave cylinder not allow the clutch to fully engage/disengage, it could cause premature wear to clutch.


Also if that was the reason that prompted them to disassemble the car, and they said it would be covered, them they foot the bill. Finding another issue later does not allow them to retract their previous statement and your authorization to work under that information.
Sent from the Canyon's Edge
 


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221
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20
Location
Santa Rosa
#54
First they can't charge you for opening up or taking apart to see what the issue is.
You don't like them or feel they are trying to cheat you take it somewhere you do trust. Get their opinion.

If you do believe it was a bad/broken clutch from the start and your wife's driving had nothing to do with how it is now find a clutch expert show him the clutch(not just pictures) and get his opinion. Then go from there.

To me as I said earlier paying the dealers cost in parts and labor(40 an hour instead of 125) is more than fair making sure no one is screwed. What your asking the dealer to do is take a 1k plus loss they had nothing to do with because Ford knows the clutch was not broken to begin with and will not cover any of cost to fix a wear item.

If you don't like this you will need to prove clutch clutch assembly was faulty to begin with.
 


Messages
18
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2
Location
Fremont
#55
Sorry to hear about your situation - I am curious if you also purchased the Ford premium maintenance package? I believe the maintenance package covers clutch discs (clutch & flywheel) - but still only under "normal wear and tear."
 


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446
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165
Location
Arlington, VA
#56
It's interesting that they diagnosed the slave cylinder first. Did they actually look at that part? Like remove and test it? If the slave cylinder not allow the clutch to fully engage/disengage, it could cause premature wear to clutch.
Yeah, did they ever say whether the hydraulic system was functioning normally? If that's what they thought it was (because it's a common point of failure) and they opened it up and found out that it was working fine, but the clutch was trashed, that's still on you. On the other hand, if one of the cylinders was leaking AND there was damage to the clutch, you could infer that one led to the other and it should be covered under warranty.

Honestly, I doubt that a leaky cylinder would lead to catastrophic damage out of the blue after 17K miles. You would probably feel the clutch getting soft like if your brake lines needed bleeding. Or you might notice it not disengaging fully and being harder to shift. I'd also note that I've seen very few posts about people destroying clutches, despite some high torque setups and high performance driving. I get the sense the clutches in these cars are pretty sturdy, though several people have reported various whines/failures from elsewhere in the transmission.
 


Intuit

4000 Post Club
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Location
South West Ohio
#57
I must've missed the photos of the parts... I don't see a link ?

Yes it is common practice/knowledge that *any* service center charges according to the labor that is specified in a book.

The book specifies the *proper* way to replace something. So for instance, if you need to replace a simple relay but the battery hold-down is in the way, the book will include the time for removing the battery hold-down. But, because the plastic fuse/relay compartment cover is flexible, with significant effort, you can squeeze and flex and twist the cover free, without removing the battery hold-down. Well, you get charged for that anyway. The mechanic who is able to figure out that shortcut is rewarded. For my old vehicle, memory serving, the Haynes repair manual specifies removing the entire engine to get the transmission out... which ain't necessary. Any idea how much time that saves... not having to drain all fluids and disconnect *everything* ?

It is also common practice/knowledge that shops usually charge a one hour minimum, even if it takes then five minutes.

It's interesting that they diagnosed the slave cylinder first. Did they actually look at that part? Like remove and test it? If the slave cylinder not allow the clutch to fully engage/disengage, it could cause premature wear to clutch.


Also if that was the reason that prompted them to disassemble the car, and they said it would be covered, them they foot the bill. Finding another issue later does not allow them to retract their previous statement and your authorization to work under that information.
Sent from the Canyon's Edge
I got the impression that it was an individual's suspicion when asked about what s/he thought *might* be the cause of the problem. In other words, it wasn't a "diagnosis" that was recorded on paper. Just a heresy guess purely based on symptoms of the problem. If it is not recorded on paper as an official estimate, they are not bound to adhere to anything.

When I drive *any* clutch, my foot is *completely* removed from the pedal. In addition, I start slipping at idle speed and get off as quickly as possible without putting "too much" pressure on the clutch system. I also turned-off hill-assist with the realization that it was needlessly increasing the amount of time I spent on the clutch pedal.

If your wife's foot is near the pedal once in gear, then it is very possible that your wife was inadvertently riding the clutch. The clutch pedal engage and release height can be very different between vehicles. For that reason, engaging in the same practice between one vehicle and another, can yield very different results.

I recommend tweaking the release height on the clutch pedal and turning off hill-assist. It may help reduce the chance of riding it.

Also consider that it may have been abused by personnel at the dealership joy-riding it; even customers test driving the vehicle.


EDIT:
Author created another thread on the same topic...
http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...denied-by-ford?p=174330&viewfull=1#post174330
 


rexdriver85

Active member
Messages
598
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144
Location
Allentown
#58
If the book states 8 hours and they get it done in a fraction of the time why would you then proceed in charging your customer for hours or work when it only took 2.5 hours. That is plain shady practices.
It's called flat-rate. All dealerships work under this payment system. *Most* technicians don't get any base or guarantee of pay. It's all per job via the flat-rate system. Do some research.

If a tech flags 2 hrs, but was at the shop for 8 hrs, guess what? He only makes 2 hrs of pay that day. If he flags 15 hrs in an 8 hr day, he gets paid 15 hrs.

Flat-rate is tough. I could rant about that system for hours.

Good luck to you.
 


Intuit

4000 Post Club
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South West Ohio
#59
................... Flat-rate is tough. I could rant about that system for hours. .......................
No kidding... especially when you start getting into old cars with rust, broken bolts, need specialized tools, etcetera, etc. Then you have those cars that have been messed with, by backyard mechanics that have no idea what they were doing; that costs you more time.
 


Messages
134
Likes
67
Location
Levy
#60
I'll admit it's been years since I've had to replace a clutch, but $2200 is absurd.
 


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