HPDE/Time Attack build

[Jabbit]

First session done for the day. Ran a 1:4x in a decent amount of rain. Still fun but not my cup of tea. Will keep running just to keep sorting out the car. No leaks after the first session. Replaced a few coolant hoses and the OEM air/oil separator. I saw coolant temps of about 203 which seems too high. I was pretty sure I had a lower temp Motorcraft thermostat but I'm going to feel like an idiot if I simply swapped in another OEM one. Does anyone know the part numbers?

 

[cidsamuth]

I know you know this, but I’m going to say it anyway ….. thermostats are so misunderstood. They give the motor a head start on cooling when at the track, but that’s about it. A 160 vs 190 thermostat won’t mean squat for temps once at 200+ under consistent high RPM pulls. If it makes you feel good to see 165 when cruising on the street, then fine.

I put a 160 in, but only cause the motor was out and it was easy, ie low hanging fruit. Once the motor is in, energy is better spent on other things rather than going balls deep on that “upgrade.”

 

[Jabbit]

At the peak I saw 215 which seemed high to me. I'm wondering what else, if anything, I can do to keep temps down. Removing A/C would definitely do it but I'm not willing to do that to another car again.

Ended up running a 1:34 in the damp conditions. Top speed was down about 5mph so I'm wondering if I have a slow boost leak somewhere.

Over the next 2 weeks I hope to do the following:
Test for boost leak
Change oil and send sample to Blackstone
Possibly mount new tires
If the rear brakes are spent, then I'll put on a fresh set of larger rotors with the SVT brackets

 

[cidsamuth]

A high of 215 under track conditions isn’t terrible. What ambient and what radiator?

 

[Jabbit]

A high of 215 under track conditions isn’t terrible. What ambient and what radiator?

Ambient was only 60. Mountune radiator.

 

[Woods247]

You can run the heater on high and that’ll help a little but 203 isn’t terrible if it comes down quickly when you aren’t pushing. I see mine get around that sometimes and I’m running the huge Mishimoto radiator with their thermostat. You could run straight water or Water Wetter instead of coolant and that would drop temps.

 

[Jabbit]

You can run the heater on high and that’ll help a little but 203 isn’t terrible if it comes down quickly when you aren’t pushing. I see mine get around that sometimes and I’m running the huge Mishimoto radiator with their thermostat. You could run straight water or Water Wetter instead of coolant and that would drop temps.

I've looked at a vent from Race Louvers. Wondering how much that would help .

 

[Dialcaliper]

The plate to plate heat exchanger inline with the oil filter is actually a pretty serious little unit and is not just used for engine warmup. It does add a decent heating load to the coolant system - adding an external oil cooler should take some load off the main cooling system and bring coolant temps down a little bit. Just a thought. Running straight water with a detergent additive (ie water wetter) would help as well as long as you're not worried about encountering a freeze.

On the water wetter note, I've been experimenting with this stuff from Norosion (currently with a 25/75 coolant/water mix - might play with straight water in my other weekend toy). It "claims" to have a real corrosion additive pack derived from industrial water based cooling systems (which is a real thing), and also has a pH indicator in it that changes color when your coolant starts going acidic and needs another dose. Is it the real deal? Hard to say but it hasn't hurt anything so far and no black goo. Hard to say how much magic snake oil it actually contributes by itself, but it gives me warm fuzzies about about corrosion protection while running a low coolant %
https://no-rosion.com/hyperkuhlcoolant.htm

 

[Woods247]

Water Wetter absolutely works. Ran in motos for years during slow XC GNCC events and even in long rallies. I don’t think his temps are terrible enough to warrant it though.

 

[Jabbit]

Water Wetter absolutely works. Ran in motos for years during slow XC GNCC events and even in long rallies. I don’t think his temps are terrible enough to warrant it though.

This was also the first event that I ran with the cowl in place. I'm going to order some hood vents to take the place of the extra cooling I had with no cowl.

 

[cidsamuth]

My opinion . . . you need more data. While ambient certainly affects coolant temps, they are no directly proportional all the way up; one sampling isn't going to tell you anything conclusive.

Then, of course, you have all the other variables . . . . like coolant/water percentage, any possible air in the system, how hard you were running the car, possible A/C draw, tune, etc.

 

[Woods247]

An air bubble in the system is something I thought of too but I think you’d probably have seen higher temps and the car would have limped. Mine used to limp if it got hot. Like after two laps… Next time you’re at the track log your temps, throttle and brake inputs for a full session and see how they look throughout your laps. I’ll do the same at Road Atlanta 5/5 so we can compare.

 

[Jabbit]

An air bubble in the system is something I thought of too but I think you’d probably have seen higher temps and the car would have limped. Mine used to limp if it got hot. Like after two laps… Next time you’re at the track log your temps, throttle and brake inputs for a full session and see how they look throughout your laps. I’ll do the same at Road Atlanta 5/5 so we can compare.

Good idea. I'll log data in a couple weeks and see what I come up with. It's a new to me track but I'll see what I can get.

 

[Woods247]

Hey how’s the final drive? Have you used 6th at all?

 

[Jabbit]

Hey how’s the final drive? Have you used 6th at all?

I don't get into 6th on the tracks I go to. I might when I hit Limerock this fall. I can't say for sure what the impact of the final drive was since I went from S280 to diff car with 2560, LSD, and final drive. If I had to do it again I might have done a Clarke trans with the gearing or not done the gearing at all. It was a significant install cost and materials price.

 

[Woods247]

The cost is substantial. My brain is telling me to justify it because my car will pull harder in 5th and actually have pull in 6th but it’s definitely expensive. I’ll look at the Clarke option you mentioned.

 

[Jabbit]

The cost is substantial. My brain is telling me to justify it because my car will pull harder in 5th and actually have pull in 6th but it’s definitely expensive. I’ll look at the Clarke option you mentioned.

Clarke will build one with the carbon synchros, LSD, and final drive. It's not cheap but should be the last trans you need. If it helps you I'm getting dyno tuned on 93 and e40 later next month. That should give you an idea of straight line speed once I have that tune done and get on track.

 

[the duke]

I don't get into 6th on the tracks I go to. I might when I hit Limerock this fall. I can't say for sure what the impact of the final drive was since I went from S280 to diff car with 2560, LSD, and final drive. If I had to do it again I might have done a Clarke trans with the gearing or not done the gearing at all. It was a significant install cost and materials price.

Seriously? I hit 6th at both Pittsburgh International and even (I think) Nelsons Ledges, and I'm on an ECU kit only. I'll pull about 120 or so at Pitt Race. I'm not brave enough to power through the kink at Nelsons

Partly we have a shit ton of torque so upshifting into the lower rpms (3K vs. 6K) with the OEM turbo works fine.

 

[Jabbit]

So you are shifting at 3k rpms on the track? I'm confused. I don't have many super long tracks up here in new England

 

[the duke]

So you are shifting at 3k rpms on the track? I'm confused. I don't have many super long tracks up here in new England

With the size of the OEM turbo (And OEM stroke), it can be advisable to shift up earlier to get back into the torque band rather than wring the engine out to redline. Instead of waiting until 6250 RPMS, I find it better to shift at a lower rpm (sometimes as low as 5 depending on the set of upcoming turns) and let the toque carry me through.

This is very track dependent though. It also makes our cars great for autocross. Leave it in 2nd or maybe even 3rd on a fast track and the engine produces enough torque that 2500 rpms will be fast enough to shoot out of any corner.