Kona N

[DoomsdayMelody]

How much is a Rs? How much is an STI and Even an Evo.... When new? Around the same price point* So....in the end....what I've seen for their "excuse" is cost* what a load of shit. What's another $1500 or make it an option at least. I'll bet it would outsell the FWD every single day of this millennium.

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I mean brand new, an RS would ring up $41k before dealer mark ups. An sti with no options starts a $37k, again before dealer markups, similarly the cheapest you could get an EVO was in 2015, when it commanded a price of ~$34,500 which when corrected for inflation comes out to about $38.5k in today money and again, before dealer mark ups.

Suffice to say there are very few hot hatches that give you ~300 HP and AWD for anything less than $40k after you sign.

You could use a PTU instead of the standard Transfer case. You are wrong about people who are shopping Rs's ...Evo's and STI's. They are looking for performance * that's what the Kona N brings. Look at alot of Manufacturers utilizing AWD NOW that haven't in the past in their vehicles....example Nissan and Toyota/lexus. Didn't take much redesign to incorporate AWD there did it? Nope....did price go up? Some but not substantially. The FiST blows donkeys in the Snow with A/s tires. Ask anyone.....its spin city without Snow tires. They will see the missed opportunity and regret it. They obviously surveyed someone like yourself about the Kona N .If they would've surveyed real performance enthusiasts it would've been AWD. I'll go test beat one and see if it's worth buying and then invest in some wheels and tires....which come out to be the cost of AWD in the size it would require. So I guess it would suck to own one when it could've just been AWD with A/s tires to avoid the seasonal issue.

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Every car sucks in the snow with AS tires, that’s just a a fact of life. AWD doesn’t really help in the snow, sure it’ll get you moving but it actually hurts your stopping distances (which I’d argue is far more important) when sliding because it makes the car weigh more.

Anyone with a brain knows that tire selection is the end all be all for traction in any weather, it’s why you don’t take slicks out in the rain even with AWD because physics doesn’t change just because your transmission is driving an additional axle.

I don’t understand why everyone is hung up on AWD, I guess it would have been nice but it’s not like it will harm performance to an unacceptable level (Veloster N with the same trans does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds) and sure the handling won’t be as sharp but AWD wouldn’t have really helped in the handling department.


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[skold]

You could use a PTU instead of the standard Transfer case. You are wrong about people who are shopping Rs's ...Evo's and STI's. They are looking for performance * that's what the Kona N brings. Look at alot of Manufacturers utilizing AWD NOW that haven't in the past in their vehicles....example Nissan and Toyota/lexus. Didn't take much redesign to incorporate AWD there did it? Nope....did price go up? Some but not substantially. The FiST blows donkeys in the Snow with A/s tires. Ask anyone.....its spin city without Snow tires. They will see the missed opportunity and regret it. They obviously surveyed someone like yourself about the Kona N .If they would've surveyed real performance enthusiasts it would've been AWD. I'll go test beat one and see if it's worth buying and then invest in some wheels and tires....which come out to be the cost of AWD in the size it would require. So I guess it would suck to own one when it could've just been AWD with A/s tires to avoid the seasonal issue.

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I'm with you. Just like if the FiST were AWD (and maybe a little nicer interior) it may be ultimate hot hatch of all time and would be the last performance car I'd ever need to own.

 

[skold]

I mean brand new, an RS would ring up $41k before dealer mark ups. An sti with no options starts a $37k, again before dealer markups, similarly the cheapest you could get an EVO was in 2015, when it commanded a price of ~$34,500 which when corrected for inflation comes out to about $38.5k in today money and again, before dealer mark ups.

Suffice to say there are very few hot hatches that give you ~300 HP and AWD for anything less than $40k after you sign.




Every car sucks in the snow with AS tires, that’s just a a fact of life. AWD doesn’t really help in the snow, sure it’ll get you moving but it actually hurts your stopping distances when sliding because it weighs more.

Anyone with a brain knows that tire selection is the end all be all for traction in any weather, it’s why you don’t take slicks out in the rain even with AWD because physics doesn’t change just because your driving an additional axle.

I don’t understand why everyone is hung up on AWD, I guess it would have been nice but it’s not like it will harm performance to an unacceptable level (Veloster N with the same trans does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds) and sure the handling won’t be as sharp but AWD wouldn’t have really helped in the handling department.


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You make good points, but for the masses AWD means security, even if a false sense (like mask wearing for Covid) and for performance enthusiasts power to the pavement x4 with this kind of power isn't even close to as good with FWD. FWD leaves both groups wanting.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

You make good points, but for the masses AWD means security, even if a false sense (like mask wearing for Covid) and for performance enthusiasts power to the pavement x4 with this kind of power isn't even close to as good with FWD. FWD leaves both groups wanting.

The majority of AWD systems aren’t really driving 4 wheels though. You connect the trans to 2 axles with open diffs, the result once traction becomes an issue is 2 spinning wheels. They then attempt to bandaid that with torque vectoring software (like what our cars come with stock, meaning it isn’t very effective), personally if it’s between 2 driven axles with open diffs, and FWD with an LSD, I’m going LSD all day.

I’m not saying FWD is without faults, but I don’t think anyone is saying the CTR is a failure for being FWD only.


Let’s not get into implying the pandemic is a conspiracy.

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[skold]

The majority of AWD systems aren’t really driving 4 wheels though. You connect the trans to 2 axles with open diffs, the result once traction becomes an issue is 2 spinning wheels. They then attempt to bandaid that with torque vectoring software, personally if it’s between 2 driven axles with open diffs, and FWD with an LSD, I’m going LSD all day.

I’m not saying FWD is without faults, but I don’t think anyone is saying the CTR is a failure for being FWD only.


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What I hear you telling me is that I need a LSD for my FiST.

 

[flbchbm]

What I hear you telling me is that I need a LSD for my FiST.

While I barely got to use mine before the slave cylinder splooged on the disc, and now I have to drive like a grandpa while I break in the new disc, IT IS FANTASTIC. Yes, get one.

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[M-Sport fan]

I don't understand the hang up on the AWD. It is not that important and it is not an end all be all performance system. I've owned two WRXs and one STI, I can say that as much fun as the launches are they were less fun and less "performance" feeling than the Veloster.

I think you'd enjoy the Kona N just as much without AWD.

I totally agree, for OPEN TRACKING, and smooth 'sealed surfaces'.

But given equal/same tires, AWD is definitely an 'advantage' on gravel/loose surfaces, and that's a fact.

Now of course you will counter/respond with "just how many buyers of these will EVER take them off road, or on anything but smooth, clean pavement?" and be mostly correct.

But a blanket statement that AWD is NEVER EVER an actual performance advantage (yes, even despite the added heft), given equal tires to a FWD/nannied system, is incorrect.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

I totally agree, for OPEN TRACKING, and smooth 'sealed surfaces'.

But given equal/same tires, AWD is definitely an 'advantage' on gravel/loose surfaces, and that's a fact.

Now of course you will counter/respond with "just how many buyers of these will EVER take them off road, or on anything but smooth, clean pavement?" and be mostly correct.

But a blanket statement that AWD is NEVER EVER an actual performance advantage (yes, even despite the added heft), given equal tires to a FWD/nannied system, is incorrect.

I think it’s been demonstrably proven that AWD is unparalleled in straight line acceleration metrics (that said I have no idea how an AWD system would benefit a drag car that is able to pick its front tires off of the ground) but going around corners the system is limited by differential type and driver skill/software programming.

That said it all depends on how involved you wanna be as a driver. Certain technology removes the driver from the equation to a degree, I think AWD is one of those technologies. I’m sure if engineers put their heads together they could build a CVT that would lap tracks faster than any other transmission, in fact that’s probably why they were banned in F1. Yet I don’t see anyone here clamoring for a high performance CVT.


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[MagnetiseST]

But a blanket statement that AWD is NEVER EVER an actual performance advantage (yes, even despite the added heft), given equal tires to a FWD/nannied system, is incorrect.

I said it wasn't an "end all be all" ergo the answer to everything performance is not "throw AWD in it", which seems to be the general consensus here. If company X makes a new performance car that looks like it should have AWD and it does not have AWD everyone is bummed out and upset before they even physically test it themselves. AWD is certainly most useful for loose surface or other surfaces where traction is limited or nonexistent, but in the majority of cases it won't be "used" then either. Look at all the RS/Evo/STI owners who don't even drive in the cars in the snow, let alone off a paved surface.

 

[GreenenvyFiST]

I said it wasn't an "end all be all" ergo the answer to everything performance is not "throw AWD in it", which seems to be the general consensus here. If company X makes a new performance car that looks like it should have AWD and it does not have AWD everyone is bummed out and upset before they even physically test it themselves. AWD is certainly most useful for loose surface or other surfaces where traction is limited or nonexistent, but in the majority of cases it won't be "used" then either. Look at all the RS/Evo/STI owners who don't even drive in the cars in the snow, let alone off a paved surface.

Just look at all the reviews of the Veloster N DCT, and I think they'll agree that this vehicle with lsd will be more than capable with less weight.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I said it wasn't an "end all be all" ergo the answer to everything performance is not "throw AWD in it", which seems to be the general consensus here. If company X makes a new performance car that looks like it should have AWD and it does not have AWD everyone is bummed out and upset before they even physically test it themselves. AWD is certainly most useful for loose surface or other surfaces where traction is limited or nonexistent, but in the majority of cases it won't be "used" then either. Look at all the RS/Evo/STI owners who don't even drive in the cars in the snow, let alone off a paved surface.

It might be more that many feel that they are already compromising with this vehicle being a tall, high center of gravity, CUV as it is, but to be that and still only have FWD, and not the 'expected in a CUV/SUV' AWD, is just a no go.

OF COURSE one can open track CUVs, just look at all who did so with the boxy, upright previous gen Foresters with the WRX power/drive train (which yeah, WAS AWD BTW), but it is NOT what they were designed for, and just as few Kona N owners will ever take them to road courses as any RS and STI owners would ever let snow/salt or gravel touch their rides.

Besides, when attending/working ARA gravel rally events there are literally THOUSANDS of Scoobies showing up and driving down very ROUGH forestry roads to get to spectator points, yes, even the most co$tly 'done up' STIs.

 

[PhoenixM3]

Kona N = Konan (Conan)

 

[FJ16]

Kona N = Konan (Conan)

Yeah but are we getting the Librarian, or the Barbarian?

 

[XR650R]

Yeah but are we getting the Librarian, or the Barbarian?

The barbarian, I hope.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

The barbarian, I hope.
View attachment 40208

Yeap...

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[flbchbm]

Why not both like a CUV is?

View: https://youtu.be/mZHoHaAYHq8

 

[XR650R]

Yeap...

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I loved that stuff when I was a kid. Hell, I'm old now, and I still love it.
Never really cared for all the superhero stuff. It was fun, but people can't fly. They fought with swords, though. Barbarians actually existed.
It's a little more relatable than superpowers. Swords and sorcery just makes for fun scenes: Big dudes chopping people up, wizards casting spells, impossibly hot babes wearing almost nothing.
Life was simpler, then...

 

[MagnetiseST]

It might be more that many feel that they are already compromising with this vehicle being a tall, high center of gravity, CUV as it is, but to be that and still only have FWD, and not the 'expected in a CUV/SUV' AWD, is just a no go.

Two things:
1) expectations lead to disappointment
2) I don't know what part of the country you live in, but the vast majority of SUV/CUVs in South Florida are FWD vehicles.

OF COURSE one can open track CUVs, just look at all who did so with the boxy, upright previous gen Foresters with the WRX power/drive train (which yeah, WAS AWD BTW), but it is NOT what they were designed for, and just as few Kona N owners will ever take them to road courses as any RS and STI owners would ever let snow/salt or gravel touch their rides.

Besides, when attending/working ARA gravel rally events there are literally THOUSANDS of Scoobies showing up and driving down very ROUGH forestry roads to get to spectator points, yes, even the most co$tly 'done up' STIs.

I know that there are tons that do go to rally events, in fact I prefer rally to road racing. I was purposely off pavement in my STI more than any other car I've owned. You are right, but I just don't agree that the Kona N is any less of a vehicle, or any less of an enthusiast car without AWD.

 

[PhoenixM3]

The Kona should move out pretty well, but it isn’t close to being a spiritual successor to the FiST.

I do think one of you intergalactic ballers should drop a FiST engine into an AWD EcoSport.

 

[XR650R]

The Kona should move out pretty well, but it isn’t close to being a spiritual successor to the FiST.

I do think one of you intergalactic ballers should drop a FiST engine into an AWD EcoSport.

It has a 2.0, so a FoST engine should fit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IelyPhtPimA