Need help from the suspension / brake experts.

[kivnul]

Evening folks.
I have MiesterR coilovers, stock front brakes and Pierce 4 point brace. I have never had luck with the Pierce brace being tight enough: During AutoX taking a very hot sharp turn would cause a "pop" noise that would continue happening until I tightened it up even more. I lived with this for about 10 sessions. Today, I did not have the standard pop but a whole bunch of little pops. They sound like they are coming from the center of the front of the vehicle, caused by sharpish turns, low speed and high speed. An additional symptom: My brakes consistently sucked for the 1st and 3rd hard braking spot of the course (driving straight, push petal to the floor, brakes working at like 60%) The 2nd hard braking spot the brakes felt like normal. The only difference I can tell is that i slalomed alot before the 1st and 3rd and not really much of any steering input before the 2nd. It is as if the brake pads got pushed in extra with the steering and thus I would of had to pump the brakes to reseat the pads properly.

I went home and pulled off the pierce brace. I cannot test the brakes AutoX style but the noises are still there unchanged. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be causing this? Visually all bolts look seated and I do not see anything weird. The wheels seem solid when pushed and pulled on.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm VERY FAR from an "expert", but are you sure that all of your (inner and outer) CV joints are in great shape?

 

[kivnul]

Hey M-Sport Fan, The boots look to be in good shape. I have had an old Camry whose CV joints went bad and it was a constant clicking with the wheels cranked. My current symptom seem to be based on torque on the frame or wheels from the direction change itself and is more of a popping/groaning (and takes some throwing the car around to get it to do it.. usually). I do not think its the CV's but I will look at them more in depth. I'm afraid of opening up the boots if it is even possible to inspect them better.

 

[alexrex20]

I bet it's the front bolts on your brace (the control arm bolts). My 6-point did the same thing until I finally put it up on ramps and properly torqued the bolts.

 

[DAPR]

Bleed your brakes.

 

[kivnul]

I bet it's the front bolts on your brace (the control arm bolts). My 6-point did the same thing until I finally put it up on ramps and properly torqued the bolts.

I torqued them many times in ramps to no avail (for the original type of popping). I just took the whole thing off and it is still doing the new noises.

Bleed your brakes.

I will in an attempt to figure out the weird braking. Won't address the new noises though. Since both symptoms started at the same time I kinda think they may be related.

 

[alexrex20]

Could be a bad sway bar link.

 

[DAPR]

Check endlinks and lube caliper slide pins.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Could be a bad sway bar link.

That would have been the very FIRST thing I checked, but it would NOT cause any 'groaning' type noises (rubbing inner fender liners, maybe?).

 

[kivnul]

Ok, just got back from under the car.

Sway bar end links look great. No binding, bushings look good. The two spots where the sway bar connects to the subframe are greasy. Not sure if normal.
I looked at the rest of the bushings that I could see and all look OK.
Checked the subframe for cracks - None visually apparent.
Checked the subframe connection to the chassis - Two of the bolts look uncentered to me.. more than I would think would be normal. Attached are a couple of pictures though they did not turn out great. Anyone else familiar with these: Is this normal? Should I put the car on stands (instead of ramps) and loosen these up to see what happens? Figure I would have to jack up the subframe itself to keep pressure off, would probably need a 2nd jack to make it even.

LEFT


RIGHT

 

[DAPR]

How much preload you running on your coils? Honestly if you checked everywhere else I'd start there.

 

[kivnul]

Very delayed update: The ring circled on the image of the coil overs worked itself "not tight" I could reef on it with a wrench and get it tighter. This happened to both left and right at the same time. How it was making noise I have no idea. Both rings have become damaged by my tightening efforts and the folks at MeisterR have sent me a new pair of rings (with a more traditional wrench style) to use for free. Good service there.


On a side note: has anybody else had difficulty in getting the 4 bolts for the peirce 4 point to tighten up to spec? Using a 18" breaker with all my strength I am still shy by about 120 degrees. The lower A arms keep popping on extra aggressive turns during autox. I am going to get a length of pipe in the spring to turn that bar into a 3 footer. Going to pray that I do not snap a bolt. Should I lube these up?

 

[alexrex20]

To hell with the torque+degrees spec. Just torque the front bolts to 120lb-ft and the rears to like 100lb-ft or so. They're stout and you ain't gonna snap them unless you really gorilla them on there with a 10ft cheater pipe.

 

[kivnul]

To hell with the torque+degrees spec. Just torque the front bolts to 120lb-ft and the rears to like 100lb-ft or so. They're stout and you ain't gonna snap them unless you really gorilla them on there with a 10ft cheater pipe.

Spec is 46 lb-ft +180° for the a-arm and 74 lb-ft +240° for the other bolt. I am uncertain where that falls in a total lb of torque but it feels like I am already above 130 lb-ft. (My torque wench maxes at 100)

 

[Bonesaw]

When I put my brace on ( on a lift/not under load) I used an air impact gun- precisely spec'd to goodentight with 4 extra ugga-duggas. No creaks or noises so far.

 

[alexrex20]

Spec is 46 lb-ft +180° for the a-arm and 74 lb-ft +240° for the other bolt. I am uncertain where that falls in a total lb of torque but it feels like I am already above 130 lb-ft. (My torque wench maxes at 100)

The degrees is for a new bolt. Since they're used bolts that spec is useless. The bolt is already stretched and will not yield. If you're past 100, you're gtg.

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[kivnul]

I would think I was "good to go" but I am still getting it to shift under hard corners. My impact wrench cant even get to 100 ft/lb so I can't use the ugga-dugga method =( I am going to order 4 new bolts a) just in case I break something and b)so that I can get the bolts to stretch using spec torquing methods. Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[alexrex20]

You tightened the control arm bolts while the suspension was loaded?

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[kivnul]

You tightened the control arm bolts while the suspension was loaded?

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yes sir!