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Pure Junk....absolutely pure Trash

Messages
155
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120
Location
Tampa Bay, FL
#21
Better for you does not qualify as better for all.
That is true Phoenix, but he has a point. Manufacturers aren't making manuals anymore because people, as a general rule, simply don't want them anymore. I agree that I do love the 6 speed in the fist, but I am sure if Ford offered some type of DCT in it that I might love it just as much (and it would definitely be faster).
 


jmrtsus

1000 Post Club
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Location
Ooltewah
#24
12 reasons to get a manual on top of not being a sheeple!


1. It is more fun to drive
2. It is cheaper to purchase
3. Don't need jumper cables
4. Routine maintenance is 100K fluid change
5. Nobody asks to borrow your car
6. Nobody will steal your car
7. Better gas mileage
8. If you learn to drive one properly clutches will easily last over 100K miles
9. Fords hill assist negates hand brake starts
10. Cheap to replace compared to 10 speeds and DCT's.
11. Faster? Not by much and I don't care....I quit street racing 40 years ago!
12. Old drivers? They don't have a manual. Only old car enthusiasts have cars like ST's and we know how to drive.
 


Intuit

3000 Post Club
Messages
3,650
Likes
2,255
Location
South West Ohio
#25
@TyphoonFiST - Yeah he's not an enthusiast. 🙄
Basic reasons are:
* Automatic trans tech and reliability have greatly improved.
* People don't want to learn, requires more effort, requires both hands/feet.
* Little to no price difference when new. For those that care, low resale value.
* Dealers don't carry them. (hard to find, diminished availability)
* Larger, luxury and less-economical vehicles represent greater and greater share of purchases now. (financing longer and higher loans)
But I guessing my "article" would generate few clicks.

#13) While automatic transmissions definitely have their flaws—most notably draining fuel economy and problems with solenoids—all in all, they're much more reliable than manual gearboxes. Even the most ginger, expert stick shift driver will have to get their clutch replaced eventually, which is a complex job that can easily cost well over $1,000—and more for luxury or sports cars.
Previous car replaced >327k due to rust. Clutch never required replacement.
#14) Even the most experienced stick shift-acquainted driver hates getting stuck on a hill. Using the emergency brake makes it possible to slip from the brake to the gas while feathering the clutch and not rolling backward, but the fear still lingers that another driver will pull up too close and cause a fender bender nonetheless.
Never bothered me. I live in the Ohio Valley. If you're not going up a hill, it's only because you're going down one.
#11) A major reason that even high-performance cars are losing stick shifts—like the Porsche 911 Turbo S, which may sound counterintuitive—is the use of dual-clutch gearboxes. Porsche's PDK (which stands for Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe) might be the best in the business, but almost every manufacturer now uses a dual-clutch transmission to shorten shift times.
This is a repeat of #15.
#10) A counterintuitive reason that manual transmissions are going slowly but surely extinct is the increasing use of turbochargers in modern cars to improve low-end torque and fuel economy. As fun as driving a manual with a turbo might be, all that low-end grunt is a sure way to increase clutch disc wear and blow gearboxes more frequently.
False. Just because you drive them, slipping the clutch at 2,500RPM all the way through the intersection with 3,500RPM shifts just keeping up with standard slow-poke traffic, doesn't mean everyone else does. I've shifted manual transmissions nearly exactly the same way an automatic would. I ignore them, but both of my manuals have had up-shift indicator arrow. I only say "nearly" because there are times when the shift-timing is too early; the ECU doesn't have terrain and other relevant data. I do.
#8) While it's true that older generations are more likely to know how to drive stick shift, having grown up in eras when more cars left the factory equipped with manual transmissions, old drivers are also a major reason for the present decline. After all, seeing old people driving fifteen miles below the speed limit with their faces six inches from the windshield is scary enough without realizing that they're trying to multitask with a stick shift.
I agree age is a factor. But their experiences lend well to mutlitasking. Usually it's the arthritis, back pain and other physical ailments. In other words, not mental decline.
#6) Anyone who learns to drive stick shift learns to hate the sound of grinding gears. And there's a reason the phrase has become an idiom: it sounds awful. Even worse than the noise, though, is the knowledge that missing a shift or mistiming a clutch release slowly but surely leads to clutch disc and transmission problems.
Could pick at this and number seven; but starting here, not going to get that granular. 😑
#5) Given that most of the remaining cars that hit the streets equipped with stick shifts are sports cars, it would seem reasonable to assume that manual transmissions perform better than automatics. But that is, by now, completely incorrect. Part of the reason many manufacturers have switched to automatic gearboxes, actually, is because they improve 0-60 sprint times.
Repeat of number 15 and number 11.
#4) Operating a stick shift and clutch pedal in stop-and-go traffic can be a real chore. Not only does it slowly degrade the life of the clutch, but it can also cause real soreness in the left gluteus maximus. Just having to worry about the accelerator pedal—or better yet, switching on a semi-autonomous setting—is much more ideal for daily commuters.
Minus the "soreness" drama, completely valid. Some people get annoyed if you hang back a car-length or two to "buffer" the stop & go; allowing one to just keep in first gear at a steady crawl.
 


PhoenixM3

Senior Member
Messages
806
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510
Location
Colorado Springs
#26
That is true Phoenix, but he has a point. Manufacturers aren't making manuals anymore because people, as a general rule, simply don't want them anymore. I agree that I do love the 6 speed in the fist, but I am sure if Ford offered some type of DCT in it that I might love it just as much (and it would definitely be faster).
I have GT350R which has a great tranny, and I will get a Bronco with the manual as well. I’ll contNiue to buy manuals as long as they’re available.

Working backwards, here are the cars I’ve recently owned:

2017 Fiesta ST
2013 GT500
2012 Fiesta SES Manual
2011 BMW M3 sedan (DCT - great transmission)
2015 Fiesta ST
2002 BMW M3 manual
2008 Mini Cooper S manual
1998 Mini Cooper manual
2003 Mini Cooper manual
1996 Volvo 940 Polar wagon manual
 


Last edited:
Messages
246
Likes
290
Location
San Antonio
#27
My wife has a BMW with, I think, a 6spd auto. It's relaxing to drive, and gets the job done, but the connection and coordination of shifting my FiST up and down gears is way more satisfying. The perfect 3rd to 2nd downshift after you blip the throttle to 6k rpms has no substitute IMO.
 


Messages
112
Likes
95
Location
Ohio
#28
One of the reasons I bought this car was that it was a manual. Luckily I work an off shift and deal with little traffic. This car is my dd. If I lived around Washington DC I would drive an auto because the traffic SUCKS. My kids are all adults now but they were taught to drive a manual. This was done for the reason Jeff listed above with zombies.
 


FiestaSTdude

1000 Post Club
Premium Account
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1,722
Location
Cary, NC
#29
I went out of my way to make sure my door dash car (2001 focus zx3) was manual! Personally, driving a automatic for 8 hours gets boring. I enjoy the challenges of driving stick even in traffic much more than the ease of driving an automatic. The guy writing that article sounds like he's stuck with an automatic so he has to justify it
 


Messages
164
Likes
215
Location
Knebworth, UK
#30
Honda S2000 has one of THE best manual gearboxes. It's a mechanical thing that combines beautifully with how the whole car feels and goes. It has no TCS or hero modes, ABS is it. When you get the hang of smooth up and down shifts and keep it singing in VTEC it really is something else. That takes skill and practice.

The Fiesta is a handling feels car but the engine and box are just not that special. Would I miss a manual in this car - no. Would I want a DCT S2000 - NO. With a turbo it's much less reliant on revs or gear selection to be quick and it requires less mechanical skill to be quick.

If its just about the easiest way to be quick then DCT is probably better but it's not necessarily better if you enjoy driving.

That's my two cents anyway.
 


jeff

2000 Post Club
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3,222
Location
Evans
#31
Honda...

The Fiesta is a handling feels car but the engine and box are just not that special. Would I miss a manual in this car - no. Would I want a DCT S2000 - NO. With a turbo it's much less reliant on revs or gear selection to be quick and it requires less mechanical skill to be quick.
With a few simple mods the Fiesta ST gearbox goes from good to great. Here's a review I made:

View: https://youtu.be/u9ljqi7923E?t=134


Speaking of Hondas I just replaced the bushing and linkage on my CR-X and oh man there's nothing link a no-cables-involved direct feeling old school Honda shifter!!!!

View: https://youtu.be/7wvz7ZRe6QE?t=82
 


rallytaff

1000 Post Club
Premium Account
Messages
1,164
Likes
802
Location
Los Angeles
#32
12 reasons to get a manual on top of not being a sheeple!


1. It is more fun to drive
2. It is cheaper to purchase
3. Don't need jumper cables
4. Routine maintenance is 100K fluid change
5. Nobody asks to borrow your car
6. Nobody will steal your car
7. Better gas mileage
8. If you learn to drive one properly clutches will easily last over 100K miles
9. Fords hill assist negates hand brake starts
10. Cheap to replace compared to 10 speeds and DCT's.
11. Faster? Not by much and I don't care....I quit street racing 40 years ago!
12. Old drivers? They don't have a manual. Only old car enthusiasts have cars like ST's and we know how to drive.
I totally agree with your last statement! I never drove an automatic until I came to the States.
 


Messages
164
Likes
215
Location
Knebworth, UK
#35
@jeff
See my 'old' current Honda is an Automatic DelSlo and it's great like that. Doing the PU bushes and changing the grease in the shifter housing on the S2000 always sharpened up the change, to the point i changed every couple of years - they were literally 20 bucks for the kit. I wish we had some Mk1 CR-X left that weren't rotten or fetching 15K + USD for good ones :( Most 90s cool Hondas here have literally disintegrated.

@rallytaff I too hadn't used an Automatic before going to the USA - for distance driving and city hacking I'm a convert.
 


jeff

2000 Post Club
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3,222
Location
Evans
#36
@jeff
See my 'old' current Honda is an Automatic DelSlo and it's great like that. Doing the PU bushes and changing the grease in the shifter housing on the S2000 always sharpened up the change, to the point i changed every couple of years - they were literally 20 bucks for the kit. I wish we had some Mk1 CR-X left that weren't rotten or fetching 15K + USD for good ones :( Most 90s cool Hondas here have literally disintegrated.
Yeah they're super hard to find in decent shape. I got lucky, right place right time.

I test drove a '96 Del Sol VTEC (the 160hp one) a few weeks ago, it's on my list of bucket cars. Car was in great shape and only 75k miles for $7300, a steal. Could have flipped on BAT for way more. But I didn't buy it, the car just didn't do anything for me. Guess I'm spoiled with the CR-X and the ZC engine goodness. I respect the Del Sol though, it just felt so heavy.
 


jeff

2000 Post Club
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Location
Evans
#38
Its that roof mech. But that's the cool bit for me. I paid just about 800USD for mine. Fully intended on running it for a year and binning the dust at the end. Took it to bits and it wasn't rusty other than two rear arches.

http://www.delsoluk.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35353

Thats mine. Not all of Covid times have been bad :)
Very nice and good job on the refresh. For $800 you can't go wrong. My current Insight (it's my 3rd) was $500 and runs flawlessly after a bit of wrenching and a few hundred dollars of fixes. There's something about driving a $500 car around that is wonderful, I can't explain it.
 


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