Stage 3 vs stock 40 roll - dead even

[mercdank]

My buddy and I got in the highway ramp and did a third gear 40mph roll. I have stage 3 mods, he's stock for engine mods (he has tires and bracing). We were dead even up thru the gears, I was shocked. The gains from the mods are all low end torque so while the car feels faster in normal city driving, there's nothing up top at 5000+ rpm left to add, unless you go big turbo I suppose.

Just wanted to share my experiences. I didn't get this car for top end speed and I absolutely love it's performance, however I was expecting a little more top end improvement over stock for stage 3. Will need to get this on a dyno soon.

 

[CanadianGuy]

You said you have the mods what about the tune? Without it the ECU will reign things in.

 

[mercdank]

Adam tuned.....

My buddy took a vid hopefully he will post it soon.

 

[CanadianGuy]

oh. interesting to see.

 

[dyn085]

This shouldn't be too surprising, but it's good to see it brought up. Take a look at the dyno's posted by OEM turbo owners, regardless of tunes/mods, and you'll see that the top end doesn't differ by much at all.

 

[wrongwheeldrive]

You're saving me some serious $$ my friend! Whenever I uninstall my AP I can't tell a difference between stock and stage 1 (except for torque truncation) I've been thinking about stage 3 for a while now but keep hearing things lately like how catless DP doesn't do as much as you'd expect and being restricted to 91 (CA) makes all the mods and tunes less useful... I still want a larger inter cooler and have been wanting a larger radiator too as this car overheats when you push it!

 

[frankiefiesta]

r01L R@c1nG sW33t Br@h

If you raced from a dig you would probably win, assuming you know how to get a decent launch..

 

[OCDFist]

Too many variables to say that they're even because Stage 3 parts (vs stock) don't gain in a race. This a graph comparing Cobb Stage 2 ots tune vs my Pro tune, I don't have any when it was bone stock. Not a huge difference, but enough to be ahead. Were both cars heat-soaked, starting rpm & gear, datalog on your tune, etc?

 

[RobK]

Huge difference in the canyons where you can usually run a gear higher and use the added torque, the tighter the canyon or track the better. You won't be gaining a whole lot of HP without doing a turbo swap.

 

[TruConspiracy]

i agree with frankie. i noticed a huge difference after going from stock to cobb stage 2. no offense, but i would not base my future mod plans off of this thread. im not denying the stock fist could hold its own but sometimes it comes down to the driver too. as in knowing when to shift for example. its not always best to push the fist to redline before shifting imo.

 

[RobK]

i agree with frankie. i noticed a huge difference after going from stock to cobb stage 2. no offense, but i would not base my future mod plans off of this thread. im not denying the stock fist could hold its own but sometimes it comes down to the driver too. as in knowing when to shift for example. its not always best to push the fist to redline before shifting imo.

Definitely, on the stock turbo with an E30 tune I would rarely rev past 5800-6000.

 

[mercdank]

We were leaving an autocross event. I was expecting at least to inch ahead at the initial WOT. We were same speed and same gear, and I wasn't going any faster at WOT. Things stayed even thru fourth and then we hit traffic. I agree with shifting before redline, but third gear from 40mph is 3000 rpm, so through the entire rpm range I never gained against him. I wasn't datalogging I dunno if my buddy was.

 

[J2FoRS]

Pretty hard to judge a rolling street race. He could have twitched his leg muscle a second before you did. And it's basically impossible to line up perfectly even with someone at a 40 roll in order to "start" even. I mean the other day I was eating a mcflurry at a light and a minivan peeled off thinking I was gonna race him. He's probably posted on the soccer mom forum already about smoking a FiST.
To many uncontrolled variables. Test them from a stand still over 4 passes switching drivers each pass.

 

[frankiefiesta]

Pretty hard to judge a rolling street race. He could have twitched his leg muscle a second before you did. And it's basically impossible to line up perfectly even with someone at a 40 roll in order to "start" even. I mean the other day I was eating a mcflurry at a light and a minivan peeled off thinking I was gonna race him. He's probably posted on the soccer mom forum already about smoking a FiST.
To many uncontrolled variables. Test them from a stand still over 4 passes switching drivers each pass.

Oreo or m&m?

 

[J2FoRS]

Caramel oreo!!

 

[apex]

Mercdank is accurate in his description of the race as I was the one who raced him. The first race he described was from 3rd at 40 to almost the end of 4th. We were dead even and as he passed he shrugged his shoulders as I did with surprise. So we did it again half a minute later 3rd gear from 60 and I was sure he would get me this time with my heatsoaked stock IC. Once again dead even to 100 then we shut it down. My only logical explanation to my shocked buddy was that my car has 60k miles so it's well broken-in and that if we had rolled from 2nd the outcome would have been much different. I've resisted the urge to mod this great great car with my only mods being a 2 pt lower bar, rear torsion bar, and a rear lateral brace.

Despite all that we had a blast at the autocross with 6 FiSTs present and had several runs in the downpour. That was a bonus as we had a skidpad at our disposal for about 50 seconds at a time. Mercdank demonstrated his drifting prowess as he spun his FiST...thank goodness he didn't wreck like that BRZ that went into a tree. Gladly he was okay but that's racing.

Mercdank let's me at Markaham Park around 4:20 sometime during the week and we'll do a few more runs along SR 84 towards US27. Then we can post proper vids for the forum.

 

[15performanceblue]

That is insane. I guess it is believable with the stock turbo losing all power near the top of the RPM band. I will share my experiences. I raced a OTS stage 1 cobb tuned fist from a 35-40 roll, He was in 2nd, I was in third. I am stage 3 E30 tune, stock intercooler. Before he even shifted out of 2nd. I was pulling away from him. Again, I started in 3rd. He started in 2nd. We ran again, both from a 2nd gear roll, I LEFT him in the dust, soon as I got traction I pulled bus lengths till about 110. I am basically at Sea level, if that makes a difference or not.

 

[LeonardSkeonard]

Apex might just be trolling you with an e30 tune on stock hardware

 

[mercdank]

Word I'll hit you up.
I'll let you drive my car so you can see the low end difference.