Upgrade camshafts

[stelllios]

Hello.

Is anyone here using stage 1 camshafts with complete stage 3 hybrid turbo like s270 x47 e.t.c? What's the power gains? What's the difference to this stage with cams?

 

[Raziel510]

I'm not an expert on anything but I think if you're planning on going above 350 HP then you can start worrying about changing the cams.

I'm running a X57RS with stock engine internals. I'm currently at about 300HP with stock HPFP and 30% injectors. I'm just waiting to get a XDI HPFP to get to the 350 HP threshold that everyone has accepted as safe power level for stock engine internals.

I'm running a US spec car, are you US or Euro spec? What is your end power goal? Why do you want to change the cams?

 

[stelllios]

My car has a complete stage 3 kit with s270 turbo and produces 270 bhp. My friend of mine sells stage 1 pipper cams. I am interest to purchase these and I ask what's the benefits and if anyone use them with those turbos.

 

[Raziel510]

I apologize I just noticed that you're a Euro spec car. I'm not sure what the cams will do to help you and your cars setup. Hopefully a more experienced member will chime in.

 

[stelllios]

Yes I have a euro spec car. It hasn't many differences I think.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Mainly, the difference is your MAF based tuning, vs. our MAP based tuning protocol.

 

[daloonie]

No increase in power mentioned for stage 1 on their site: https://www.pipercams.co.uk/product/feco16bp270b

But if you get the uprated springs as well you could potentially end up with increasing redline to 7-7500 rpm and avoid valve float.

All their versions can be found here with info on the specific cams: https://www.pipercams.co.uk/product-category/car/ford/ford-ecoboost-1-6

 

[Herbie]

I've just purchased a set of used piper stage 1 cams... I will be getting the uprated springs and caps, new hpfp and new injectors. I also have an s270 running collins performance cp4 plus full intake and boost pipe upgrades and a modifies itg filter.

There are some info about the mountune cams in the states being the same as piper and apparently they make an extra 18 hp stage 1 (unsure if at wheels or crank) but that was on a stage 2 car.

The ones that miss fired were the 300s which is the race ones and need forging and are not recommend for road cars due to the bad idle and high end power output.

Looking forward to fitting them in by summer this year

 

[the duke]

Mainly, the difference is your MAF based tuning, vs. our MAP based tuning protocol.

Yeah, us dumb Americans have the foolproof measuring system for once.

Other than the center console, the MAF vs. MAP, and the front/rear rash structures, I'm not aware of muh else that's different. Woodz did show we have a different latch sensor though which I found interesting, but that's related to safety/crash regs. so I can understand that.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Changing cams is really only useful for shifting the power band slightly to a higher rpm range.

On engines with a tiny restrictive turbine side on the turbocharger like ours, the exhaust manifold pressure is generally higher than the intake manifold pressure, and so increasing cam duration (which increases valve overlap) does not result in more flow and in some cases can hurt. “Turbo cams” are often using less overlap to mitigate this.

Its only worth changing cams when you change the turbo to one with a *much* larger, freely flowing (larger A/R) turbine side, with a compressor running near its peak efficiency, which ours is being wrung way past in flow and boost pressure, even with something like a hybrid or S280. I almost question whether it’s worth it with smaller big turbos given the high boost pressures we run.

With a good flowing turbine, you can reach exhaust pressure equal to or less than intake manifold pressure, in which case the engine will benefit from more valve overlap and longer duration with less EGR at the end of stroke, and cam behavior is more like that of a naturally aspirated engine.

TL;DR - cams are not worth the expense without running a full effort big turbocharger.