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  1. #11
    New Member 15 Rep Points tiggerbren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antarctica24 View Post
    Ok lets see if I can help here, My Fist is 2014.

    First its the 6 to 8 and Aerospace processors. http://mosconi-america.com/

    If you had the 3.5.. jack it would be in the in center console. Anything compressed in your words sucks. The teac player upscales the music, and it makes a big difference in the way a ITunes or MP3 sounds. So the Teac is an upgrade for iTunes as you would have it. For the DAC, it is all in the converter or Analog to Digital Converter. So the first issue with the OPPO is the voltage out. If your not getting at least 4 volts, your missing out, right? As for Quality, you are either a fan of the Sabre Dac or not. I like the AKM dac. But that is neither here nor there. The oppo is not going to perform better than the Mosconi piece for no other reason than the power supply and the dacs in the Mosconi pieces are much better. That is an industry opinion not mine. Im not dissing on the Oppo piece. I almost bought one, but the voltage out was not enough.

    If comparing the Oppo Dac to the Teac player, your oppo dac wins. If comparing ITunes or MP3 to Teac Teac wins. If you get a DSD file and run it through your Oppo which is supports, You are on cloud 41. DAC's are funny creatures. The converter, the digital clock correction, and power supply, all control the quality of the DAC. Some are closer in relation to each other than others. AKM is newer than most, but it is getting a lot of praise. Analog Devices some good some not so good. Burr Brown which I am sure you have heard of, the ESS Sabre in the Opp, and Wolfson.

    This is your daddy DAC
    http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/reference-features/

    I consider these people to be the Finger of GOD people when it comes to DAC's. When I had my ODR piece, the RS-P50 from Pioneer. I got them the schematic to the processor, and went it and changed the input stage to accept 10 volts of signal, upgraded all of the input and output stage caps, and the DAC. I spent $4K having the piece modified. At the finals when I was competing Expert, the VP of Engineering from Pioneer came over, to listen to the car because at that time I was being sponsored by Pioneer. He sat in the car for an 2 hours, and when he got out he wanted to know what I had done. He asked me when the show was over could he buy the piece from me. At the time I told him no, but that at the end of the season I would contact him. They paid me the $4K I had invested in the piece.

    While I would never invest $39K in a DAC for the car, I would easily buy the $7K version.

    This is the one I bought
    xDuoo XD-05 32bit/384KHz DSD DAC Portable Audio Headphone Amplifier (Black)

    because it has the AKM dac.

    The mosconi has a high level and low level input. You can use the Mosconi 6-8 without the JL Audio piece because it has a Input EQ as well as output EQ. The difference is with the JL audio piece, you put a disc in and run the disc and the JL piece will listen to the signal and make all of the corrections to bring the signal back to flat. With the mosconi piece, you would use an RTA, like the audio control piece or one you buy on your phone (less sensitive, but will do the job), so you make your adjustments on the input EQ to make the system flat, then retune to account for the acoustics of the car and new speakers.

    As for replacing the door speakers. Straight forward somewhat. I am not a fan of factory wiring. However, if you choose to use factory wiring, then replacing the door speakers is a no brainer. If you want to use aftermarket wire, you have to make modifications to the molex plug in the door.
    This is great! I've installed at least a dozen car stereos in my life, yet this went right over my head! I've had my Fiesta since November and am certainly not impressed with the stock sound system. At some point I plan on tackling this car, adding amp, subwoofer, and upgrading the speakers.

    The thing I'm not sure about is taking the factory DACs out of the picture while still being able to navigate the system as usual. Would the oppo/mosconi or similar unit be installed take signal from the head unit? I'm a little confused on the chain, actually.

    Say I'm playing something from Spotify off my phone through CarPlay. Is the head unit going to send an unconverted signal to the oppo/mosconi? Does the oppo send signal directly to the amp?

    What the magic with the TEAC player? Are you saying there will be a big sound improvement if I listen to music via that app through USB? Or 1/8" headphone jack?

  2. #12
    Member 199 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerbren View Post
    This is great! I've installed at least a dozen car stereos in my life, yet this went right over my head! I've had my Fiesta since November and am certainly not impressed with the stock sound system. At some point I plan on tackling this car, adding amp, subwoofer, and upgrading the speakers.

    The thing I'm not sure about is taking the factory DACs out of the picture while still being able to navigate the system as usual. Would the oppo/mosconi or similar unit be installed take signal from the head unit? I'm a little confused on the chain, actually.

    Say I'm playing something from Spotify off my phone through CarPlay. Is the head unit going to send an unconverted signal to the oppo/mosconi? Does the oppo send signal directly to the amp?

    What the magic with the TEAC player? Are you saying there will be a big sound improvement if I listen to music via that app through USB? Or 1/8" headphone jack?
    Ok, a couple of things first. The DAC in the Sony piece, there is no getting around that, if you are playing the radio or CD, Sort of.

    The only way to keep the factory controls is to use analog connections from the factory head unit to the processor. But once you get to the processor, there is a two step conversion that goes from Analog to Digital, PROCESS, then from Digital to Analog. So no matter what you get to use the DAC that comes with the processor. To step that up, You have to use either the JL audio piece the Fix 82, which is analog into the fix 82 from the factory speaker wires, then it has a toslink connection that can get you to a myrid of processors. But In doing this you lose the factory steering wheel controls.

    To use your Oppo, the best method is to use the Mosconi, run the speaker wires from the factory head into the mosconi, and then plug your phone into the oppo and the oppo into the aux input of the mosconi.

    Now, with all of that said. I need to make some stipulations. Standard audio on a CD is recorded at 44.1Mhz 16 bit audio for Red Book Standards. Anything above 16 bit is corrective up to 24 bit the oversampling in the CD mechanism rereads the disc and uses the number of bits above 16 to correct clocking errors to reproduce 20hertz to 20,000hertz.

    It is funny to note that you can buy a record player that will do the exact same thing without the clocking errors. Moving on......

    24bit and 32bit are DSD level recordings. Another word for DSD is SACD or Super Audio recordings. Same format. There is physically more information there to be read. These recordings have more detail, are louder, and have more impact amongst other things. Think of the difference between a DVD and BluRay. Not the same technology but you get the meaning of what I am saying.

    If you have an iTunes recording, what is happening is the song is compressed using an algorithm. Most importantly, and you can see this on any digital spectra graph, is ITunes is removing a lot of information from the recording about 17K. The higher the frequency the more information. That is how a majority of the space is saved, and as we struggle to perceive above 16K let alone hear it, we perceive that there is nothing missing, and in fact our brains end up making most of the correction, especially if we have heard the song before. Want to put that to the test? Take a song that you really know the words to, turn the radio on while your going down the road, windows down, you can hear something on the radio, but cant quite make it out. So you turn up the volume figure it out and then turn it back down, Now for some reason you can clearly hear the song and can follow along with it.

    Small diversion for a moment....Tuning a vehicle works the same way. You can only sit and tune a car for about 20 minutes at a time. Why? Because your brain starts to make corrections without telling you, so you end up hearing stuff that isn't there. That's why you have to get out of the car, and come back later. These people that say they stayed up all night tuning their car. BIG MISTAKE. Anyway

    If you spent the money on the Oppo Dac, thinking you would improve the situation by running the iTunes stuff through it, you can, but it was a waste. What you want to use that DAC for is to take a CD, run it through the factory system, into the JL Audio Fix 82, come fiber out of that into the Oppo piece then analog out into the aux input of the mosconi piece. This would give you the absolute best sound possible.

    option 2, would be come out of factory head unit into mosconi piece with factory speaker wires. Then come out of phone into Oppo piece, then to AUX input on mosconi piece. Pretty sure you could still control volume through steering wheel controls. But, you need to store songs on your phone in WAV format not ITunes format.

    The magic of the TEAC player, is it is a DSD player for your phone. Most DSD converted songs are like a gigabyte in size. But, the TEAC player will take a ITunes, flac, AIFF, WAV song and upconvert to DSD while playing. I have made the argument many times that you cannot get something out of something if it was not there to begin with, but whatever the TEAC Player is doing in the conversion it make a big difference in the output. Enough to get my attention. My quest started with getting all of my music in the car. The first system I competed with had 4 12 disc changers. Today with Terabyte harddrives, and tablets the technology exist to allow me to load my music onto a portable multiterabyte drive with songs in WAV format, and control them through a Windows Tablet, coming out of the tablet into the AUX input of the Alpine head unit, thus why I picked that head unit.

    another nice feature of the Mosconi piece is you can buy a Dedicated Blutooth adapter that plugs into the Mosconi processor, and can connect directly with the blutooth from the phone. It is a much better connection if you have to go wireless.

    1/8 jack is analog. USB is digital.

    PM me your phone number, and I will call you and I will walk you through it.

  3. #13
    Member 26 Rep Points skidro87's Avatar
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    Very interesting points.. I will try the teac player as well this weekend.
    I also didn't know about tuning for 20 minutes at a time!

    I remember in another thread that the weight of the actual sub/cone has to do with the speed? I have an enclosed 2x 10" box in the back, I think I need to replace the subs to something lighter.. its a JL box

  4. #14
    Member 199 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidro87 View Post
    Very interesting points.. I will try the teac player as well this weekend.
    I also didn't know about tuning for 20 minutes at a time!

    I remember in another thread that the weight of the actual sub/cone has to do with the speed? I have an enclosed 2x 10" box in the back, I think I need to replace the subs to something lighter.. its a JL box
    Speaker design is very odd in the way that it works. I had mentioned the weight issue because with a midrange it is everything. That's why a 6.5" is not as good as a 5.25" and a 5.25" is not as good as a 4". But there are tradeoffs. The 4" is obviously not going to reproduce good midbass. The 5.25 depending on the design can come close. That's why people use a 6.5 in a 2 way setup. They get midrange and midbass frequencies covered. The 3 way in my opinion is better, but is much harder to tune, you get a smaller midrange driver. The 4 way, is the tweeters midrange midbass and subbass. Very hard to tune because of the phasing issues. But the results are worth while. One the sub, you need a cone that will maintain stiffness under flex, and light enough to respond to transients. When looking for a sub, look at the lowest rated frequency it will play. The a/d/s 310RS would play clean down to 18hertz. Believe it. Most 10's go down to the 30's if you find one that will play below that, you are good to go.

    The frequency response of the Morel Ultimo 102's that I am using theirs play from 10-900. The Voice Coils are 5.1" in diameter and will handle 1000 watts nominal and 3000 peak. They are not efficient at only 87db, so you really need to throw a lot of power at them.

  5. #15
    Member 26 Rep Points skidro87's Avatar
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    I'm not planning on replacing any of the speakers, I don't really see a point if I'm not going balls deep with the dsp

  6. #16
    Member 26 Rep Points skidro87's Avatar
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    I have a sealed box as well

  7. #17
    Member 199 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidro87 View Post
    I'm not planning on replacing any of the speakers, I don't really see a point if I'm not going balls deep with the dsp
    :)

    I understood you I was just commenting on speaker design.

  8. #18
    Member 199 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidro87 View Post
    I have a sealed box as well

    Best Kind.

    For those interested why I would say that, A sealed box maintains better control over a subwoofer than a ported one. And a ported enclosure has to be tuned to the car. Otherwise you get a large peak in the vehicle at the resonance frequency of the port. This can create a boomy sound in the car, in addition to the already resonant frequency the cabin creates.

  9. #19
    Member 33 Rep Points Kazz's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info!
    2016 Fiesta ST - stock (for now) on 93 octane
    2003 Evo VIII - 400 awhp on 93 octane
    2000 Celica GT-S - 187 fwhp on 93 octan

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    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Hi @antartica24,

    Just wanted to come in and thank you for posting this. Almost a year ago I read this and put in a stage 2 for about $150 (no stage 1 - as I use Android and Rhapsody/Napster and some of that player stuff kind of went over my head).

    However I'm very happy with the results. I know it can sound better but this is much better than I expected especially considering what I put into it time and money wise. Your post was key to making it happen.

    Thanks again bro.

    Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


 
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