Engine timing questions.

[LiftedCulture]

Hey guys,

So I've had my fiesta for about two months now and got an AP about a week after. So far i have had zero issues and everything couldn't have gone better but I started noticing something a few days ago that I'm curious about. For the past couple days the AP has been showing that timing is being added here or there and i have seen it pull timing twice now, its been in the range of like -2.06/3.25 or so. What exactly does this mean? I'm not worried at the fact that its doing this but more so that it has just started doing this seemingly out of nowhere.

Like i know about ecoboost engines and that they actually tend to knock quite a bit as that was just how ford made them so I don't want to be paranoid. This could just be another quirk that these engines have but i would rather be safe than sorry. Is it common for stock engines to pull/add timing? And if so, are these normal numbers to see?

Thanks

 

[damelloman]

I'm not an expert at all... but i'm pretty sure if your ignition correction goes negative it's cause it's detecting knock. Stratified did a sweet write up on it here: http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/how-the-knock-detection-system-works-in-the-ecoboost/
I got some knock issues now myself. Spark plugs are the NGK 1 step colder and gapped to .025 - .026ish. They look fine. My good friend is gonna let me borrow his bore scope and we gonna look inside her and see what's up. Cylinder 3 is our trouble maker for the moment.

 

[LiftedCulture]

I'm not an expert at all... but i'm pretty sure if your ignition correction goes negative it's cause it's detecting knock. Stratified did a sweet write up on it here: http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/how-the-knock-detection-system-works-in-the-ecoboost/
I got some knock issues now myself. Spark plugs are the NGK 1 step colder and gapped to .025 - .026ish. They look fine. My good friend is gonna let me borrow his bore scope and we gonna look inside her and see what's up. Cylinder 3 is our trouble maker for the moment.

Yeah from what I heard that if there is a change in timing you want to see timing added rather than pulled, but I'm going to have to do more research. Thanks for the write up I'll have to take a look at it. I have the step colder Denso plugs myself maybe i'll take a look at them. Hopefully everything turns out good for ya! Let us know what you find.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I'm not an expert at all... but i'm pretty sure if your ignition correction goes negative it's cause it's detecting knock. Stratified did a sweet write up on it here: http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/how-the-knock-detection-system-works-in-the-ecoboost/
I got some knock issues now myself. Spark plugs are the NGK 1 step colder and gapped to .025 - .026ish. They look fine. My good friend is gonna let me borrow his bore scope and we gonna look inside her and see what's up. Cylinder 3 is our trouble maker for the moment.

What type of readings are you getting? All engines Knock....there isn't one out there that doesn't unless it was made into Lawn art by LSPI.

 

[Rocketst]

All engines should be tuned at the edge of knock for maximum performance. You want as much timing as you can possibly allow with minimal knock and therefore minimal negative corrections. From what I've read -1 degree is acceptable but maybe some experienced tuners can chime in and give feedback on what they'd think is acceptable.

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[Rocketst]

All engines will knock as typhoonfist says. The severity of the knock is determined by how much timing your engine pulls.

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[MagnetiseST]

General rule of thumb is anything under 4/5* is irrelevant as a one time occurrence. It will throw negatives between gears sometimes and its not uncommon to see low values. If its happening ALL the time under WOT you have an issue.

 

[LiftedCulture]

General rule of thumb is anything under 4/5* is irrelevant as a one time occurrence. It will throw negatives between gears sometimes and its not uncommon to see low values. If its happening ALL the time under WOT you have an issue.

Well thats the thing, its been a pretty common occurrence the last week or so.

 

[PunkST]

Winter blend gas? Dont forget the car has to adjust for higher temps now that its getting warmer out.

 

[LiftedCulture]

Winter blend gas? Dont forget the car has to adjust for higher temps now that its getting warmer out.

That's definitely a possibility but im not sure how common it is down here in the south.

 

[PunkST]

Idk either.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Change your spark plugs and make sure they are gapped right. Low correction values like that aren't something to worry about.

 

[LiftedCulture]

Change your spark plugs and make sure they are gapped right. Low correction values like that aren't something to worry about.

I have the Denso step colder plugs, changing plugs was actually the first thing I did along with the oil. I will have to find out how to check if they are gapped right and do that. It’s good to know that I’m just being a little paranoid.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I have the Denso step colder plugs, changing plugs was actually the first thing I did along with the oil. I will have to find out how to check if they are gapped right and do that. It’s good to know that I’m just being a little paranoid.

I've heard that the Densos cause more issues than the NGKs. They definitely do not last as long, and could cause the ignition corrections but thats not super likely.

 

[Rocketst]

I have the Denso step colder plugs, changing plugs was actually the first thing I did along with the oil. I will have to find out how to check if they are gapped right and do that. It’s good to know that I’m just being a little paranoid.

Just make sure you check them with feeler gauges and no that stupid little round spark plugs checker. The round ones okay for copper and platinum plugs but iridium being so hard has a tendency to brake off if you jam it in there too rough (that's what she said)

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[scooter123]

When was the last time you filled your tank with gasoline. Hate to state the obvious here but it's very possible you got a tank of bad gas. Or ran into an Octane Cheater first hand.

BTW, an Octane Cheater is a retailer who puts 87 octane gas into the Premium fuel tanks.

 

[Rocketst]

When was the last time you filled your tank with gasoline. Hate to state the obvious here but it's very possible you got a tank of bad gas. Or ran into an Octane Cheater first hand.

BTW, an Octane Cheater is a retailer who puts 87 octane gas into the Premium fuel tanks.

If this is the case, set your accessport to track octane adjust ratio and make sure it's -1 if your running 93. That'll let you know if you got bad gas.

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[TyphoonFiST]

When was the last time you filled your tank with gasoline. Hate to state the obvious here but it's very possible you got a tank of bad gas. Or ran into an Octane Cheater first hand.

BTW, an Octane Cheater is a retailer who puts 87 octane gas into the Premium fuel tanks.

How does this happen? I have never heard of this....but I wouldn't be surprised. Now you got me thinking!

 

[Rocketst]

I periodically check my gas anyways because shit was always sketchy when I lived in Florida. This stuff happened all the time in Jacksonville where you bought 93 but it was really a diluted mix. That's why every week or so I'll track the octane ratio to make sure it's where it needs to be.

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[LiftedCulture]

When was the last time you filled your tank with gasoline. Hate to state the obvious here but it's very possible you got a tank of bad gas. Or ran into an Octane Cheater first hand.

BTW, an Octane Cheater is a retailer who puts 87 octane gas into the Premium fuel tanks.

I fill up once a week so it’s easy to keep track. But I have my ap tracking the octane adjust ratio and it’s always been -1. I get gas from the same place every week and I thought it my have been a bad tank but it would seem odd as I had no issues until about 1/2 of my last tank.
Next time I get gas I’m going to try some place else just to see.