What causes these engines to fail?

[rotation_nation]

I am evaluating bigger turbo options - considering the whoosh hybrid and s280 in particular. Reliability is very important to me. I recognize that adding power/torque is always a risk, but I was curious if the forum has a good sense of what typically causes these engines to fail.

it sounds like heat was a big one on the pre 2016 cars, but that has been addressed in the newer vehicles (mine is 2017). Outside of heat, it would seem logical that high torque setups (hybrid) would put the most stress on pistons and connecting rods, but I read somewhere that there have been more failures with bigger turbos like the s280, which make less torque albeit at higher RPMs (hence more power). Not sure if the above statement is true or not, but it would be great to understand any common threads among those with blown engines.

I just want the most reliable setup I can find, likely sticking with stock fuel system.

 

[STRemy]

headgaskets-----> with added power. the block has slits between the cylinders to allow coolant to get between the cylinders. when you add boost and get around that 300 wheel mark the cylinders has a tendency to oval. they make a shim to drop into that slit to prevent this. there is hardly any meat in the cylinder walls between cylinders. there is a class action in the works for all of the ecoboost 4 cylinders about this. the 1.5-2.3l engines are all effected by this.
but its the block that is the root cause of the issue.
in factory trim they are more or less bulletproof.
timing belt is #2 fail so change it at 100k not 150k. oil sludge and carbon build up tied at #3. change oil ever 3k with the best stuff money can buy. I run penzoil platinum 5w30 (you can go up with the second number and down with the first number but never go up on the first number or down on the second). you can fix the carbon issue if you go with aux injectors to match your turbos increased fuel needs. the fuel in the intake cleans the stuff out pretty well. the direct injection on all engines build carbon tend to do this, just how it goes.
others on the forum will know more about performance stuff, im just the tech at the ford dealer that opens them up and points at the problem and i don't know much about the high hp side of the 1.6l.

 

[rotation_nation]

headgaskets-----> with added power. the block has slits between the cylinders to allow coolant to get between the cylinders. when you add boost and get around that 300 wheel mark the cylinders has a tendency to oval. they make a shim to drop into that slit to prevent this. there is hardly any meat in the cylinder walls between cylinders. there is a class action in the works for all of the ecoboost 4 cylinders about this. the 1.5-2.3l engines are all effected by this.
but its the block that is the root cause of the issue.
in factory trim they are more or less bulletproof.
timing belt is #2 fail so change it at 100k not 150k. oil sludge and carbon build up tied at #3. change oil ever 3k with the best stuff money can buy. I run penzoil platinum 5w30 (you can go up with the second number and down with the first number but never go up on the first number or down on the second). you can fix the carbon issue if you go with aux injectors to match your turbos increased fuel needs. the fuel in the intake cleans the stuff out pretty well. the direct injection on all engines build carbon tend to do this, just how it goes.
others on the forum will know more about performance stuff, im just the tech at the ford dealer that opens them up and points at the problem and i don't know much about the high hp side of the 1.6l.

Very helpful. For number 1, I guess my question is whether it’s high HP or high torque that causes this ovaling issue. S280 and hybrid occupy very different places on the torque/hp spectrum so I’m trying to understand if it’s more of a high RPM power or high low end torque root cause.

 

[STRemy]

Neither and both at the same time. Torque is the amount of work the engine can do, hp is fast it can do that work. Torque can be made in 2 ways, high pressure or long stroke. Why diesels make so much Torque is the long stroke.
It's cylinder pressure that ovals them.

 

[rotation_nation]

Neither and both at the same time. Torque is the amount of work the engine can do, hp is fast it can do that work. Torque can be made in 2 ways, high pressure or long stroke. Why diesels make so much Torque is the long stroke.
It's cylinder pressure that ovals them.

Power is actually work, not torque. Torque is how forcefully the output shaft twists and power is the speed at which it exerts that twisting force (and therefore how well the engine will be able to take advantage of gearing to multiply that torque at the tire).

diesel engines run at much higher compression ratios than gasoline engines, the primary reason for generating more torque. Longer stroke also helps them generate more torque.

 

[atlantaM3]

Generally, the same issues as most other tuned turbo engines - too much boost, too much timing, lots of heat, not enough fuel/octane - resulting in too much cylinder pressure and/or detonation. So erode the ring land, break a ring, erode a piston, bend a rod - lots of options for 'BOOM!'

 

[rotation_nation]

Generally, the same issues as most other tuned turbo engines - too much boost, too much timing, lots of heat, not enough fuel/octane - resulting in too much cylinder pressure and/or detonation. So erode the ring land, break a ring, erode a piston, bend a rod - lots of options for 'BOOM!'

Thanks. I would think these sorts of outcomes are more causally related to extreme torque spikes…which is why I was surprised to see a comment that more people have failures on s280s than whoosh hybrids. Maybe that comment isn’t accurate, curious to get the groups thoughts now that both turbos have been in operation for many years.

 

[Frontline17]

They seem to have issues when you add increased fuel mods to push over the 300 hp mark. I think when this is done the s280 can have high hp and tq. Plenty of people have had them run a long time doing this and plenty of blown engines. May depend on how you drive. Also direct fuel injection cars suffer from lspi. So don’t lug the motor.

 

[rotation_nation]

They seem to have issues when you add increased fuel mods to push over the 300 hp mark. I think when this is done the s280 can have high hp and tq. Plenty of people have had them run a long time doing this and plenty of blown engines. May depend on how you drive. Also direct fuel injection cars suffer from lspi. So don’t lug the motor.

thank you! Exactly the type of feedback I am looking for. LSPI is a nightmare. I always wait for my oil to get up to full operating temperature before getting on it (colder thicker oil makes LSPI much more likely). Typically 12-15 minutes of driving before getting on it.

i am wondering if part of the reason these engines are so reliable in stock form is the fact that no one really revs them out to redline (at least not all the time - such diminishing returns after 5k RPM). And maybe it’s more of a high RPM boost issue that makes the engine susceptible to issues. That would certainly align with your comment that issues seem to spring up when people add fueling, as increased fueling really only enhances high RPM output.

 

[Frontline17]

thank you! Exactly the type of feedback I am looking for. LSPI is a nightmare. I always wait for my oil to get up to full operating temperature before getting on it (colder thicker oil makes LSPI much more likely). Typically 12-15 minutes of driving before getting on it.

i am wondering if part of the reason these engines are so reliable in stock form is the fact that no one really revs them out to redline (at least not all the time - such diminishing returns after 5k RPM). And maybe it’s more of a high RPM boost issue that makes the engine susceptible to issues. That would certainly align with your comment that issues seem to spring up when people add fueling, as increased fueling really only enhances high RPM output.

There could be something to that. The cranks on these cars are not pinned. So high revving could cause the timing to skip.. The other issue is the gaps in the block between the pistons. Without those two problems and having a good cooling set up I would think these motors could take even more power reliably. The pistons are forged from factory. People do beat the crap out of these engines on track days and everything though. I think if you are mindful about the car. Don’t rev to high and do proper oil changes it would be reliable over 300 hp.

 

[fk8fist]

Torque and lspi kills these engines. The pistons oval? Tf? This isn't a voodoo engine, no they don't. I've been sitting at over 350whp for along time now. Westley from EMS has tuned the highest horsepower stock block Fiestas, I highly recommend you contact him. People seem to regurgitate anything they feel fits now.

 

[rotation_nation]

There could be something to that. The cranks on these cars are not pinned. So high revving could cause the timing to skip.. The other issue is the gaps in the block between the pistons. Without those two problems and having a good cooling set up I would think these motors could take even more power reliably. The pistons are forged from factory. People do beat the crap out of these engines on track days and everything though. I think if you are mindful about the car. Don’t rev to high and do proper oil changes it would be reliable over 300 hp.

thank you! Yes agreed on oil changes. I stick to a 2500 mile interval on this car and my cayman. Cheap insurance, and I love wrenching on my cars so short intervals are an excuse to do a weekend project. I also submit oil for analysis to black stone labs every change. Not only does that allow you to identify problems early, but it also makes cars incredibly easy to sell (nothing puts a buyer at ease more than a history of oil change analysis every 2500 miles). But that doesn’t matter in this case because I am NEVER selling the fiesta.

 

[rotation_nation]

Torque and lspi kills these engines. The pistons oval? Tf? This isn't a voodoo engine, no they don't. I've been sitting at over 350whp for along time now. Westley from EMS has tuned the highest horsepower stock block Fiestas, I highly recommend you contact him. People seem to regurgitate anything they feel fits now.

thank you! What’s the best way to get ahold of him? Website just sales@ems email.