Any experience with these tires?

[DopePope]

GM,

I was just wondering if anyone here had any insight on the three potential tires I plan on wrapping around my TD classic pro race 1.2’s in a 15x8. Mainly just looking for tread wear and if anyone has experience daily driving and auto crossing them.

All of the tires are 205/50r15’s so I’ll get a little stretch.

Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS
Dunlop Direzza ZIII
Toyo Proxes R1R

I also have dedicated winter tires so these would be summer + perf.

Any insight is greatly appreciated!

 

[the duke]

I've run the ZIIIs the past 2 years. I feel I got better life out of RT615K+s on the track. The 615K+s were like 30 percent cheaper as well.

 

[Jabbit]

1. Great user name.
2. I ran the re71r, the previous gen. Stickiest of the sticky icky 200tw tires. I've heard good things about the RS variant as well.

 

[CSM]

Heavy autocrosser here (~40 events a year including nationals).

I have personal experience on the ZIII (Have ran 2 sets on my Fiesta, one in 215/40/17 and one in 225/45/16) and personal experience on the new RE71RS (I've autocrossed a few Miatas on 225/45/17 and 245/40/17). Heavy autocrosses on both.

No experience on R1R.

ZIII is an older tire. Wears very well, if you were prioritizing daily driving and wanted to do an occasional autocross, it's not bad. If you get really serious into autocrossing, you're going to wish you hadn't bought it.

The RE71RS is lightyears ahead of the other two tires. It is currently the top dawg in the 200 treadwear autocross world, along with the Yokohoma A052. I found the RE71RS very easy to drive and communicates steering feel very nicely, whereas the Yoks A052 are a little more "edgy" in transitions....just takes a little more effort and steering input to get them to do what you want to. However, at the extreme limits of grip when pushing the car 10/10s, the RE71RS is a little less forgiving IMO. I could tell with Yoks are being overwhelmed a little more and were ready to break loose.

A052 are famous for giving a "hero" run when they are colder, and they overheat fairly quickly on camber challenged cars. It is not unusual to see national level folks cooling A052s off with towels dipped in ice bucket, covered on the tires, in between runs. RE71RS is a little more resistant to overheating. Both tires from what I have heard are fast to the cords - they dont tend to heat cycle out like the old RE71R.

If it were me, I'd only consider the RE71RS of the three you listed. I have a set ready to install for my STR Miata build. Love them.

 

[esp_martin]

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/bridgeston-returns-200tw-scene/

i don't know what's crazier in this article. the fact the re71rs was almost a full second faster per lap then rt660 or that they could fit a 245/40R17 size tire in a miata...

 

[Dialcaliper]

This article, which also happens to be linked off the other one above is really useful:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/track-tire-buyers-guide/

The Bridgestone I haven’t run personally, but a lot of people I know love it - before the A052, the Bridgestone RE-11/71 and R/RS variants were one of the darlings of 200TW Autocross, along with the BFG GeForce Rival (Rival S, etc)

The Dunlop ZIII are also an excellent tire, with slightly less grip, but more feedback

The Toyo R1R is an OLD OLD tire back when 100TW was the autocross tire limit (before 200TW super "street" tires was a thing, it was basically "no Hoosiers or race slicks"). I ran several sets of them on my Miata…over 10 years ago. It still has great grip especially in the wet, warms up quick and will stand up to a trackday or two, but is exceptionally squirmy at full tread depth. It’s surprising they still make them and haven’t updated them. Generally I’d say the modern 200TW tires outclass them in almost all areas, but neither are they totally obsolete.

The comments I'd put on them (similar to the Grassroots article):
Yokohama Advan A052 - crazy grip, vague feedback, no heat resistance - basically a single lap time trial tire
Bridgestone RE-71RS - excellent grip, vague feedback, great autocross tire
BFG GeForce Rival S(1.5) - great grip, great feedback, likes tossing and high slip angles, excellent tread life (not quite as ironclad as the original Rival)
Falken RT660 - similar to the above, but the latest iteration gives up feedback and treadwear in order to try and keep up with the rest.
Dunlop ZIII - good grip (not quite up to the others above), but best steering feedback of the lot. Great all around street/autocross tire
R1R - Similar grip to the ZIII, but really squirmy unless you shave them, excellent in wet.

Of the ones on your list, the ZIII probably has the best treadwear. If you get heavy rainstorms, the ZIII and R1R are the only ones that handle that well.

Many of the 200TW tires are still awesome on damp surfaces but largely because they mostly have a facade pretending to be a "tread pattern", they hydroplane like no tomorrow if there is standing water. I drove my Rivals back from LA in one of the recent atmospheric river storms (4" an hour), and they were absolutely terrifying to drive, especially when the freeway was rough. They couldn't handle the 80 mph traffic in the smoother left lane with water on the road, and I had to slow to 55mph in the truck ravaged and puddly right lane. It was scary as hell and I'm glad my pants and Recaros stayed dry...

Of all the 200TW options including the ones you listed, the best wearing, overall compromise tire in all conditions for the street, is probably the Dunlop ZIII, hands down unless you're going to get into serious competition and not just having fun.

FYI, one thing you will notice about the hot 200TW tires is they are produced seasonally, and outside of the winter/spring before race season, they can be hard to get your hands on especially with the post-COVID supply chain

 

[CSM]

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/bridgeston-returns-200tw-scene/

i don't know what's crazier in this article. the fact the re71rs was almost a full second faster per lap then rt660 or that they could fit a 245/40R17 size tire in a miata...

I run that size on my Miata 😁😁😁😁. -4.2 degrees of camber up front. You can squeeze that big of a tire of you run a lot of camber

 

[Dpro]

I drove my RT660‘s in an Atmospheric River downpour on the 101 last New Years eve and it was pretty scary. I had to go 55 just to keep the car on the road and not hydroplaning into something.
Previous to that driving them in mild rain was not too bad.

 

[Dialcaliper]

I drove my RT660‘s in an Atmospheric River downpour on the 101 last New Years eve and it was pretty scary. I had to go 55 just to keep the car on the road and not hydroplaning into something.
Previous to that driving them in mild rain was not too bad.

The things we do in the name of performance!

I think it goes for pretty much all the 200TW tires with pretend tread patterns. They are really pretty good on damp surfaces/light rain, but the ZIII and R1R are the only ones I’d take in a heavy rainstorm on purpose. The rest are like bringing a knife to a gunfight in real downpour

 

[M-Sport fan]

The things we do in the name of performance!

I think it goes for pretty much all the 200TW tires with pretend tread patterns. They are really pretty good on damp surfaces/light rain, but the ZIII and R1R are the only ones I’d take in a heavy rainstorm on purpose. The rest are like bringing a knife to a gunfight in real downpour

Even though it is not a 'major brand' player, I would put the Nankang NS-2R in that rain worthy category as well, at least going by it's tread pattern.

 

[CSM]

I dunno - maybe I'm the minority, but I haven't had issues with 200TW tires in the rain. I just slow the F down and make sure I'm not running tires with 2-4 32nds....gotta have tread depth to evacuate water.

Hell, I even took 2nd in PAX out of 120 entries at a big autocross a couple years ago in my SSC car on RT660s in torrential downpours.

Moral of story - make sure you have decent tread depth, dont drive too fast in downpour conditions, and you'll be fine.

 

[Dpro]

I dunno - maybe I'm the minority, but I haven't had issues with 200TW tires in the rain. I just slow the F down and make sure I'm not running tires with 2-4 32nds....gotta have tread depth to evacuate water.

Hell, I even took 2nd in PAX out of 120 entries at a big autocross a couple years ago in my SSC car on RT660s in torrential downpours.

Moral of story - make sure you have decent tread depth, dont drive too fast in downpour conditions, and you'll be fine.

You probably drove on nice flat well surfaces that were not uneven and prone to puddling . It’s a lot different on track or even a parking lot autocross course compared to public roads. Oh and my tires had plenty of tread at the time. I also am not sure you know what an atmospheric river downpour is like . It’s a subtropical storm deluge that can drop several inches in less than an hour.

 

[CSM]

You probably drove on nice flat well surfaces that were not uneven and prone to puddling . It’s a lot different on track or even a parking lot autocross course compared to public roads. Oh and my tires had plenty of tread at the time. I also am not sure you know what an atmospheric river downpour is like . It’s a subtropical storm deluge that can drop several inches in less than an hour.

I agree - street is way different than track or autocross. I'm just saying, it seems like sometimes people get all freaked out about 200TW tires in the rain. They're not going to result in instant death. As long as you have decent depth and slow down for conditions, you'll be fine for 99% of the time.

And I'm not sure what tire would drive well in that crazy crap LA had recently LOL. thats biblical levels of rain. multiple inches in an hour is going to make any tire struggle.

 

[Dpro]

I agree - street is way different than track or autocross. I'm just saying, it seems like sometimes people get all freaked out about 200TW tires in the rain. They're not going to result in instant death. As long as you have decent depth and slow down for conditions, you'll be fine for 99% of the time.

And I'm not sure what tire would drive well in that crazy crap LA had recently LOL. thats biblical levels of rain. multiple inches in an hour is going to make any tire struggle.

Oh ya in fact I thought these tires were not too bad in the rain till that drive. 🤣 The crazy thing is we were having those storms every other week for like two months straight it got to where I was just ya it’s raining I am not going anywhere. Plus we really are not equipped for that kind of runoff. I mean we had flooded freeways flooded roads . Our snowpack in the mountains is close to 300% of normal😂
Tulare lake reappeared in the central valley flooding out towns and farmlands and the last time it was a lake is back in the 1800’s .

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Did all of these 'biblical' deluges at least start to refill the bone dry reservoirs, or did that complete lack of runoff routing totally preclude that from happening?

Did the famous 'movie set' canals running through the area overflow during these recent events (I've never seen pics/coverage of it)?

 

[Dialcaliper]

I agree - street is way different than track or autocross. I'm just saying, it seems like sometimes people get all freaked out about 200TW tires in the rain. They're not going to result in instant death. As long as you have decent depth and slow down for conditions, you'll be fine for 99% of the time.

And I'm not sure what tire would drive well in that crazy crap LA had recently LOL. thats biblical levels of rain. multiple inches in an hour is going to make any tire struggle.

It’s true - it’s not instant death, just something to be aware of when you start daily driving on tires that aren’t really “street” tires anymore - today’s 200TW tires have better dry traction than all out race slicks from 20-30 year ago.

Even when it’s not raining heavily, just normal rain, encountering puddles of standing water at speed can bite you in the ass really quickly as you go from directly from excellent wet grip to hydroplaning and instantly put you over half a lane on the freeway. Just a consequence of the tire choice you need to keep in the back of your head

California just has eternally crappy road surfaces that form divots and potholes from heavy overuse, and they do result in puddles on the freeway and other unexpected places.

As a sidenote, after my LA trip, I drove back from a ski trip in another of the recent storms with heavy rain, and happy to report that my Continental snow tires didn’t even break a sweat in the despite the same crappy surfaces with standing water. Night and day difference from the Rivals. It’s just a matter of
having the right tire for the conditions.

 

[Dpro]

^^^Did all of these 'biblical' deluges at least start to refill the bone dry reservoirs, or did that complete lack of runoff routing totally preclude that from happening?

Did the famous 'movie set' canals running through the area overflow during these recent events (I've never seen pics/coverage of it)?

Most state resvoirs are full or at near capacity this is already prior to the melt off of the Sierra Nevada locally the concrete gouge that is the LA river of today did not over flow but it was very high and fast moving. . Most of the river overflows happened up north or the central valley. My sisters neighborhood in Menlo Park came real close flooding from the San Francisquito creek exceeding it’s banks which is an actual known flood plain which Mark Zuckerbergs house in Palo Alto is actually in.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Most state resvoirs are full or at near capacity this is already prior to the melt off of the Sierra Nevada locally the concrete gouge that is the LA river of today did not over flow but it was very high and fast moving. . Most of the river overflows happened up north or the central valley. My sisters neighborhood in Menlo Park came real close flooding from the San Francisquito creek exceeding it’s banks which is an actual known flood plain which Mark Zuckerbergs house in Palo Alto is actually in.

Yeah, finally the reservoirs are filling up.

There were huge problems with the first couple storms, even though we were getting record rainfall and flooding, even in some 100 and 500-year floodplain areas), it was either in the wrong place (lowlands, not high mountains or snowpack above the reservoirs), or the wrong part of the state for some reservoirs. I’m lucky that our city just recently completed several flood control projects

Worse, the initial rainfall and floodwater was contaminated (random crap accumulated during dry spell, overflowing sewers and septic) and couldn’t be stored, so even after the first several storms, we were still in “drought” in terms of usable water.

Its finally being alleviated now that we’ve got record snowpack in the mountains, although it remains to be seen what will happen once it starts to melt.

Anyway, the point is that most of the grippiest 200TW tires have tread as lip service and while the compounds are good in the wet, the hydroplane. Many of them also start with as low as 7/32 tread depth brand new (instead of typical 9-10), which is done basically so they work well without being shaved for competition (but still have enough tread for “wet” surfaces) Notable exceptions are the ZIII which has slightly more, the R1R and apparently the Nankang which are more typical ~9/32). No coincidence there.

It’s also worth noting that in street driving, despite the soft treadwear and shallow tread most 200TW will still heat cycle and lose some grip before the tread is down to 2/32, so the “missing” tread depth is not really useful anyway.

Another tire worth mentioning for a dial purpose daily driver is the Hankook R-S4. It’s slightly less grippy (closer to the Dunlop) but has a reputation as an “endurance” tire that doesn’t heat cycle as fast. It also has a better tread pattern for wet and fuller tread depth. The downside is the only size that fits our cars is 225/45R15. All the 16” and 17” options are a bit too tall or wide.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^I thought that there were some 100 and 200 tread wear gummies which were molded with as little as 5/32 tread depth, right from the factory.

It IS a shame that the RS4 is not made in more useful sizes for us, as that would be a perfect summer street tire for many of us.

 

[rallytaff]

The only time I ever had the pleasure of hydroplaning was in my old Focus on stock tyres going to work one day on the 5 fwy north. Traffic was sparse for a Saturday morning and I hit a wet patch. Did a complete 180 and instinct and training took over, slow, slow steering input to bring it back in line. Luckily the traffic behind me saw what was happening and slowed down a I completed my well executed pirouette!