Before and after Walnut blasting Dyno results

[Stkid93]

Hey guys,

I found this thread on a mini forum and wanted to share it with you all. As I think it’s important to our platform as well. The post involves a mini copper a with a 1.6 turbocharged direct injection engine. And he did a Dyno test before and after a walnut blasting. And the results are amazing. He gained as much as 35 horsepower and 30 ish torque just by cleaning his intake valves. This was done with a stock vehicle and I believe I read on the original post that he was somewhere around 100k miles for this test. So there was a decent amount of build up on the valves. I have copy and pasted the post from the mini cooper forum below for your viewing pleasure. It includes pictures of the valves along with the Dyno sheet.



Wanted to share this walnut blasting cleaning with you guys. I'ts my dads car, recently bought. '08 Mini clubman john cooper works 211hp. 1.6 direct injected turbocharged engine.

When i drove it i felt like it was holding back, hesitating and not delivering power.

I have put the car on our superflow 4x4 dyno and measured. Then cleaned the valves using our walnut blasting tool and after that used the tunap valve clean spray with running engine.

​

Let these results speak for themselves

Black lines stock before valve cleaning. Red lines after cleaning

Stock with dirty valves 191 hp
Stock with cleaned valves 211 hp ( exactly as per manufacterer! )

Testdrive after cleaning also confirmed a drive without hesitation and improved performance.

 

[gtx3076]

Hey guys,

I found this thread on a mini forum and wanted to share it with you all. As I think it’s important to our platform as well. The post involves a mini copper a with a 1.6 turbocharged direct injection engine. And he did a Dyno test before and after a walnut blasting. And the results are amazing. He gained as much as 35 horsepower and 30 ish torque just by cleaning his intake valves. This was done with a stock vehicle and I believe I read on the original post that he was somewhere around 100k miles for this test. So there was a decent amount of build up on the valves. I have copy and pasted the post from the mini cooper forum below for your viewing pleasure. It includes pictures of the valves along with the Dyno sheet.



Wanted to share this walnut blasting cleaning with you guys. I'ts my dads car, recently bought. '08 Mini clubman john cooper works 211hp. 1.6 direct injected turbocharged engine.

When i drove it i felt like it was holding back, hesitating and not delivering power.

I have put the car on our superflow 4x4 dyno and measured. Then cleaned the valves using our walnut blasting tool and after that used the tunap valve clean spray with running engine.

​

Let these results speak for themselves

Black lines stock before valve cleaning. Red lines after cleaning

Stock with dirty valves 191 hp
Stock with cleaned valves 211 hp ( exactly as per manufacterer! )

Testdrive after cleaning also confirmed a drive without hesitation and improved performance.

More air more power. I’ve come around to the idea that a catch can would be valuable if only to keep oil vapor out of the combustion chamber.

 

[ogminlo]

I’ve been running a Damond OCC since 1,000 miles, and I’m at 98k now. Some time this summer I’d like to pull my intake off (such a hassle on these cars…) and scope my valves for science.

 

[the duke]

I don’t believe our DI deposits are anywhere near as bad as the earlier BMW and VAG motors. I seem to remember ours were quite good systems.

with that said I do not recall anyone posting pre\post dyno results.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I would fully expect these results (or MORE) given just how horrid that buildup is on the valve stem base in that pic above!!

I HOPE that mine do not look that bad currently @45K miles!

 

[dhminer]

Several posts on here with before and after pics. Ours don’t get that bad.

Dude also used the world’s most generous dyno with whp equating to factory bhp rating lol. I don’t think these were underrated from the factory.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Several posts on here with before and after pics. Ours don’t get that bad.

Dude also used the world’s most generous dyno with whp equating to factory bhp rating lol. I don’t think these were underrated from the factory.

You may notice from the license plate sticking out that the Mini owner has EU plates. Looking it up for fun, Digicar is probably a shop in the Netherlands. Over in Europe for whatever reason, they intentionally apply corrections to dyno figures to estimate “brake horsepower” at the crankshaft, not raw whp, and it should be compared as such - there’s no “optimism” going on unless the whp->bhp conversion is off. Returning a manufacturer quoted bhp number is perfectly reasonable in this case. Just the way they do it over there.

Just one of those oddities like the UK not allowing “temporary overboost” horsepower numbers in marketing, such that the Mk7 FiST is “ST180” with 180 hp at the crank, but gets rated as 197hp in the US

 

[Stkid93]

Yes this was not meant to be an apples to apples comparison to our platform.

I have personally never see valves as bad as those on any platform. And I definitely have not seen valves like that for the fists. Those 2007-2013 bmw models were notorious for carbon build up. I would consider them the king of build up. I know the post is about mini cooper but they are owned by bmw and I’m pretty sure the engines they use are designed by bmw. Or at least have heavy influence from them.

Some people suggest a walnut blasting every 25,000-30,000 miles on those bmws. the n54s are usually what people think of when discussing bmw carbon build up, but it impacts All of their older motors. VW and Audi products were the same way. Just not as bad as the bmws. Must be something about how the Germans design the pcv systems?

So yes, this was an extreme example. But even on mildly bad valves, you will see a noticeable increase in throttle response and power. During my research on carbon build up I have come across a couple before and after walnut blasting Dyno sessions and have seen anywhere from 10-30 horsepower for milder cases. It looks like the biggest gains for this mini are almost 50 torque around 4700 and 35-40 horsepower around 5300. And remember that was a stock mini as well. Had it been tuned it may have seen even bigger results.

I wouldn’t expect our platform to have those results as our valves don’t get that bad. But 10-20 horsepower seems reasonable on our platform. But the biggest difference will probably be how the engine runs and idles and throttle response.

 

[Stkid93]

Also yes @Dialcaliper is correct this appears to be bhp not wheel horsepower. The uk and other countries measure power this way for some reason. You will notice this if you ever looked at mountunes packages (m215 and m230) as their claimed numbers are at the motor. So it’s 215 bhp.

But it should be noted they still use a chassis Dyno and then apply a correct factor. So it’s not completely accurate. Seems silly to me. It will never be exact without an engine Dyno?

 

[dhminer]

You may notice from the license plate sticking out that the Mini owner has EU plates. Looking it up for fun, Digicar is probably a shop in the Netherlands. Over in Europe for whatever reason, they intentionally apply corrections to dyno figures to estimate “brake horsepower” at the crankshaft, not raw whp, and it should be compared as such - there’s no “optimism” going on unless the whp->bhp conversion is off. Returning a manufacturer quoted bhp number is perfectly reasonable in this case. Just the way they do it over there.

Just one of those oddities like the UK not allowing “temporary overboost” horsepower numbers in marketing, such that the Mk7 FiST is “ST180” with 180 hp at the crank, but gets rated as 197hp in the US

That’s interesting. I wonder if they use a flat rate for whp to bhp conversion based on the driven wheels or if they actually dyno cars when brand new to determine drivetrain loss specific to every car.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Do the (almost requisite nowadays) 'real' performance DSG equipped rides lose a lot less than a true, fully automatic slushbox, and even as little as most pure manuals??

 

[Stkid93]

@dhminer

From the videos I have seen it looks like they still use the ancient 15% for front, 20% for rear, and 25 for all wheel drive. Or maybe they do 10 front/15% rear/20% all. It may depends on the shop and be different from place to place as well. But I recently saw a Dyno video from the uk on a civic and they had the wheel horsepower and engine horsepower displayed, and it was 15% difference.

this is where the numbers can start to really get skewed. As modern drivetrains have become much more efficient than that. (The main exception being Subaru, those freaking things have so much drivetrain loss it’s crazy) I have seen videos from the Uk where they had a fist with a x37 and claimed it was 340 horsepower, x47 fists claiming as much as 390 horsepower etc. Despite the fact that they are claiming engine power, these figures still seems too high. As x37s are more like 250-270 wheel while x47s are closer to 300 wheel. So their claimed engine numbers are anywhere from 20-25% higher than what those turbos are known to put out to the wheel. And this is because they are assuming a 15% drivetrain loss when it’s probably Closer to 8% artificially boosting the numbers. But that’s just how they do it over there I guess.

I believe drivetrain loses can now be as low as 3-5% if they really try. But average is probably closer to 8-10% in most cases. Many things can obviously affect this such as

-manual/auto
-dual Clutch vs torque converter
-type of gear oil used. Thicker oil will soak up more power
- overall efficiency of differentials
- and of course the drive wheels are always a factor as well.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Yeah, it’s basically just different logic.

Here, we measure whp output because that’s effectively what the chassis dyno measures on the logic that it’s more representative.

In Europe, they apply corrections to represent crank horsepower with the logic that it gives a better comparison to “factory” quoted numbers. Eliminates the confusion of “but why does my 197hp car only dyno at 180hp?” And “I have X part that is supposed to add 10hp, why does my car only dyno at 190hp?”

Theoretically, measuring whp is more accurate. However, there are still a few problems with our method as well. Typically a dyno software will still apply a correction factor for ambient pressure and temperature unless you actually ask for raw numbers. Otherwise it becomes nearly impossible to compare any two runs - if the ambient temperature rises or falls a few degrees or barometric pressure changes between runs, and you’re trying to say, tune an ecu, your later run might have a lower result even if the actual adjustments were positive (or vice versa)

Additionally, if the (usually 4th) gear you run on the dyno isn’t exactly 1:1, there’s an offset there unless the operator corrects for it.

Then there’s the famous difference between say, Mustang and Dynojet, which is primarily down to different correction factors and calibrations being applied.

In theory converting to bhp can be just as valid, especially if the shop has one or more stock cars to dyno as reference. But if they just use the old “15% for FWD”,etc, that may or may not be close to reality.

In any case, dyno figures are only useful for “ballpark” figures, or relative measurements on the same vehicle on runs fairly close in time on the same day. YMMV

 

[Intuit]

For the tad bit of build up (if any) that occurs on ours with stock hardware/software, you're wasting your time. For those that get build up because they drive Mrs Daisy all the time, it won't matter.

Quit looking for stuff to belly ache about and just enjoy the vehicle.

 

[scooter123]

https://www.nitrousexpress.com/stage-2-gasoline.asp

I have this sitting in my basement waiting to be installed. It's a meth kit with a Direct Injection routing programed into it. What this does is provide a low volume water/methanol mix to the intake valves during light driving. When you want to kick some ass it swings over to the power mode to provide full meth boost. My car only has 45K at present but I am really curious on how using it will effect fuel economy because mine has dropped a bit in the past 2 years and I suspect that may be due to fouling on the intakes. I also expect that it will provide more ignition timing when I get a tank full of gas from an octane cheater.

 

[Fiestig]

https://www.nitrousexpress.com/stage-2-gasoline.asp I have this sitting in my basement waiting to be installed.

I have an AEM V3 Meth Kit sitting in the box being lazy as well. I apparently treat boxes of parts like packs of 1987 Topps. Unopened to keep the collector value...lol

But I would love to get the benefits, so maybe a spring install is in order

 

[tri-pedaler]

I’ve been thinking of media blasting before the season starts - at 80k with no catch can (bought at 60k). What’s a reasonable estimate?

 

[Stkid93]

@tri-pedaler

I have heard about $400 to have a shop do it. Depending on how much labor it takes to get to the valves. If you find an independent shop with the right equipment you will save money. A dealer will charge out the ass, if you can even get an appt. The local ford dealer new me is completely booked out until may or June I think they said? They can’t even take new appts. (Also a little trick I have been using for years to save money is to pay cash. Credit card fees can be as high as 5-6% for the vendor. So paying cash saves them money on fees. I recently saved $80 on a job paying cash.

Sometimes you will even get lucky and one of the mechanics will be willing to do the job on his own time as a side gig for way less money. Of course, this isn’t without risks, because a side job means if something goes wrong. You need to go after the employee themself, not the shop, and shops have insurance specifically for this reason.

A couple years ago I took my speed 3 to a shop and they had some idiot kid pull the car in who was an absolutely rookie driving stick and he accidentally put the car into 1st instead of reverse and proceeded to give the car way too much gas and drove the car right into a curb. Destroyed my front mount intercooler and damaged the radiator and radiator support. Ended up getting 2500 bucks from the shops insurance.

walnut blasting price may have increased lately with the way our economy is. I got quoted $600 just for the labor for a front and rear brake job the other week that’s 4 hours at $150/hr. Which is now the new average labor cost in my area. It used to be $100/hr. A couple years ago before COVID, I was quoted 350-400 for the same job.

anyways sorry for that long winded answer.

 

[gtx3076]

@tri-pedaler

I have heard about $400 to have a shop do it. Depending on how much labor it takes to get to the valves. If you find an independent shop with the right equipment you will save money. A dealer will charge out the ass, if you can even get an appt. The local ford dealer new me is completely booked out until may or June I think they said? They can’t even take new appts. (Also a little trick I have been using for years to save money is to pay cash. Credit card fees can be as high as 5-6% for the vendor. So paying cash saves them money on fees. I recently saved $80 on a job paying cash.

Sometimes you will even get lucky and one of the mechanics will be willing to do the job on his own time as a side gig for way less money. Of course, this isn’t without risks, because a side job means if something goes wrong. You need to go after the employee themself, not the shop, and shops have insurance specifically for this reason.

A couple years ago I took my speed 3 to a shop and they had some idiot kid pull the car in who was an absolutely rookie driving stick and he accidentally put the car into 1st instead of reverse and proceeded to give the car way too much gas and drove the car right into a curb. Destroyed my front mount intercooler and damaged the radiator and radiator support. Ended up getting 2500 bucks from the shops insurance.

walnut blasting price may have increased lately with the way our economy is. I got quoted $600 just for the labor for a front and rear brake job the other week that’s 4 hours at $150/hr. Which is now the new average labor cost in my area. It used to be $100/hr. A couple years ago before COVID, I was quoted 350-400 for the same job.

anyways sorry for that long winded answer.

If $80 is what they would have been charged in fees then they didn’t save anything, but you did. We don’t typically offer cash discounts, or if we do, we actually charge a little more than what we would save in fees because tracking cash requires more work. Personally credit is just easier to use and track for us.

 

[Stkid93]

given what @gtx3076 said,

Check with the shop before deciding payment method. See what costs the least amount