Belt Broke While Driving

[Blk16 FiST]

So on Friday 10 Feb, driving home from work I started hearing a "slap slap slap" sound similar to if your tire shredded. Pulled over and looked, tires were all good so I popped the hood and found the belt torn and slapping around while running. I didn't want to wait for a tow truck so I limped it to the nearest dealership near my house (should have went to a mom and pop shop). They told me they wouldn't be able to get it in the shop until Monday, called through the day and kept getting different answers (including the service rep trying to tell me that because the car is heavily modified and tuned, they cant accurately read the CEL code that came up. I told him yes you can, just plug the reader in and tell me what the code is), they finally told me that the belt had broken the cam position sensor wires and the belt tensioner. I asked what the total price would be and he told me ~$1,200 for the new belt, tensioner, cam position sensor/wires, and an oil change. Called this morning for an update and he told me they wont have the parts until tomorrow, and then they will see if there is anything else broken or causing issues.

It's just weird that the belt broke, there was no sign that it would and it was in the shop for a different CEL about a month ago. The odometer did just hit ~52k miles so I'm assuming that's about the time it would need a belt change.

Heavily modified equates to: Whoosh RMM, Motor and trans mount inserts, Mishimoto Radiator, overflow tank, whoosh rad hoses, 160 degree thermostat, Mishimoto Intake, whoosh catted DP, MBRP cat-back (with a muffler welded at the back), Whoosh shift reduction, whoosh shifter base bushings, shifter cable bushings, Dizzy stage 2 tune, aftermarket intercooler (unk brand from PO)

 

[cidsamuth]

It does seem strange. Unless I'm missing something, none of your upgrades affected the belt. You don't have an A/C delete, 4-port injection (or other reason for the alternator to be moved), crank pulley change, or upgraded tensioner, right?

Perhaps you had something rubbing the belt. It's easy to do . . .

 

[Blk16 FiST]

It does seem strange. Unless I'm missing something, none of your upgrades affected the belt. You don't have an A/C delete, 4-port injection (or other reason for the alternator to be moved), crank pulley change, or upgraded tensioner, right?

Perhaps you had something rubbing the belt. It's easy to do . . .

There shouldn't have been anything rubbing the belt, I pulled the alternator off last summer to change the thermostat but it went back on (seemingly) without issue and driven a ton of miles since then. I put the pineapple slice engine mount insert in last month, but didn't mess with the belt for that.

 

[WannabeST]

Do you drive in a lot of varying climate conditions and dirt conditions? The belts are a simple rubber wear and tear item, if they go from hot to cold often and if they're getting dirty and beat up they will wear prematurely. Was there any cracking on the belt when it came off? Aside from the obvious rip that made it come off.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I really wish that our (serpentine) belt was easier to access/change, as I would 'OCD overkill' replace that item as well as the oil and transaxle fluid I already do.

I just hit 43K miles, and now you have me stressing to change this belt.

It was a 3-5 minute job on my old LS1 Z28, right there in the front with nothing in the way, NO cover at all, on a north-south engine configuration, so I was swapping the belt every two years with a new Gatorback version.

 

[Blk16 FiST]

Do you drive in a lot of varying climate conditions and dirt conditions? The belts are a simple rubber wear and tear item, if they go from hot to cold often and if they're getting dirty and beat up they will wear prematurely. Was there any cracking on the belt when it came off? Aside from the obvious rip that made it come off.

not really, living in Northern Virginia so the hot cold isn’t that bad and no dirt roads ever (since I’ve owned it ~Aug 2020). I didn’t see any cracking on the belt but it’s also difficult to see the whole belt just from where it’s at.

I really wish that our (serpentine) belt was easier to access/change, as I would 'OCD overkill' replace that item as well as the oil and transaxle fluid I already do.

I just hit 43K miles, and now you have me stressing to change this belt.

It was a 3-5 minute job on my old LS1 Z28, right there in the front with nothing in the way, NO cover at all, on a north-south engine configuration, so I was swapping the belt every two years with a new Gatorback version.

I would just keep an eye on how it looks, the stealership quoted me $275 iirc for just the belt change.. but yes I too wish it was simpler

 

[FiestaSTdude]

I really wish that our (serpentine) belt was easier to access/change, as I would 'OCD overkill' replace that item as well as the oil and transaxle fluid I already do.

I just hit 43K miles, and now you have me stressing to change this belt.

It was a 3-5 minute job on my old LS1 Z28, right there in the front with nothing in the way, NO cover at all, on a north-south engine configuration, so I was swapping the belt every two years with a new Gatorback version.

Having recently done this job, It’s honestly not terrible, but I know that you can’t really do much car work where you’re currently living. Also, it’s definitely not a 3-5 minute job on the fiesta! We probably have a much smaller engine bay than your z28!

 

[Blk16 FiST]

So dealership replace the cam position sensor wires and tensioner. Get to the place and the service rep tells me it still has codes but the light isn’t on, and it’s idle is weird like it has an upgraded cam. I pay ($1,236) and go out to start the car and it’s idle is terrible, and the CEL is on so I plug the accessport in and check myself and walk back in to show the guy. He showed me the list of codes that popped when I brought the car in and all 3 were present before but they thought the cam position wires would fix them. So now I have to wait until tomorrow morning for them to go in and diagnose further what is causing the codes, they think the timing chain “jumped” it’s position and is what’s causing the issue..

I’m just really hoping they don’t charge me a bunch more for diagnostics and whatever else..

 

[scooter123]

First, these engine have Timing Belts, not Chains. Also the Timing Belt in this engine is so well contained and guided that the possibility of a Belt "jumping a tooth" is pretty near zero. Typically when these Timing Belt's fail they break and usually total the engine when it happens because these are interference engines. The most likely cause for this timing issue is a defective cam phaser and if you didn't have that custom tune it would normally be covered by the 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. That isn't going to happen unless someone at Ford is honest enough to admit that your cam phaser wasn't effected by any of your mods. Note, that ain't gonna happen, Ford will flat out lie and claim the failed phaser was due to your mods.

So, you should plan on having to pay for the repairs and it won't be cheap. My wild guess is that it will come in around 1500 dollars and who knows how long it will take to get a new cam phaser. Take note, the Timing Belt will have to be removed to replace the cam phaser. I strongly advise that you have that old timing belt saved for you to look over and a new timing belt be installed during re-assembly. Take note, the R&R for the cam phaser will include the Labor Costs for removing the Timing Belt as part of that procedure so make sure the dealer knows up front that they cannot double bill the labor for the Timing Belt.

 

[Ford ST]

Someone in this thread recently posted about their drive belt, and it messing up the timing belt. They did get everything fixed. Post number 25
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/fist-long-term-reliability-how-many-got-80-000-miles.18339/

 

[Blk16 FiST]

Kinda long post here, sorry
90k here from new
Apart from the regular maintenance like oil changes, coolant flushes, bleed brake oil from brake lines and the clutch slave cylinder when changing brake pads
Nothing really mayor, only 2 blend doors and that is it. The clutch is the original one still but feels a little bit tired
The only thing weird that happened to me because i bet this hasn't happened to anyone was that for some reason and to this day i don't know how or why, my serpentine belt like jump from his groves by one row so a part of the belt was running outside of the "track" lets say, so while the car is running a part of the belt tore itself but that is not the weird part
By some reason only god knows, a part of the tore belt, i don't know how, enter the seal area where the timing belt is and somehow passed between the timing belt and the tensioner and made the timing belt jump one tooth on the exhaust cam
I wasn't aware of any of that until one day i was driving and while doing a pull it throw a backfire and throw a CEL
When i did the troubleshooting, exhaust cam was running 20 degrees out of timing in correlation with the intake cam and crank
The funny thing was that i ran the car like that for like 10k miles out of time while i was getting all the parts and educated myself to do the job
The car is really smart and it was using the exhaust cam phaser to put the car back on time
The car never had problem with misfires or anything while it was out of time and drove like normal, i just never really floor it or went into high boost while it had the problem
The problem occur around 50k and did this when it was around 60k. took me 2 days on a weekend taking my time but i did it alone. i am not a mechanic by trade but i am mechanically incline individual
I changed the timing belt, timing belt tensioner, water pump, brand new crank bolt, serpentine belt, serpentine tensioner, serpentine idle pulley, and while i was at it, the valve cover gasket
Here are some photos when i did the change

Someone in this thread recently posted about their drive belt, and it messing up the timing belt. They did get everything fixed. Post number 25
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/fist-long-term-reliability-how-many-got-80-000-miles.18339/

This is probably exactly what happened with mine.. thank you for the link, I had actually been reading that thread previously before that had been posted.

First, these engine have Timing Belts, not Chains. Also the Timing Belt in this engine is so well contained and guided that the possibility of a Belt "jumping a tooth" is pretty near zero. Typically when these Timing Belt's fail they break and usually total the engine when it happens because these are interference engines. The most likely cause for this timing issue is a defective cam phaser and if you didn't have that custom tune it would normally be covered by the 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. That isn't going to happen unless someone at Ford is honest enough to admit that your cam phaser wasn't effected by any of your mods. Note, that ain't gonna happen, Ford will flat out lie and claim the failed phaser was due to your mods.

So, you should plan on having to pay for the repairs and it won't be cheap. My wild guess is that it will come in around 1500 dollars and who knows how long it will take to get a new cam phaser. Take note, the Timing Belt will have to be removed to replace the cam phaser. I strongly advise that you have that old timing belt saved for you to look over and a new timing belt be installed during re-assembly. Take note, the R&R for the cam phaser will include the Labor Costs for removing the Timing Belt as part of that procedure so make sure the dealer knows up front that they cannot double bill the labor for the Timing Belt.

Unfortunately you are probably totally correct (especially considering the service rep didn't know CEL would be the same if a car is tuned..). I'll fight it, but I doubt warranty would cover it. Thank you for correcting me with the timing belt, as I was writing it "chain" sounded wrong and figured I'd be corrected.. Just pissed that I bought the car with 32k miles and it has been in the shop for different things more times than any other car I've owned.

 

[Blk16 FiST]

Update: Dealership called yesterday and let me know that the intake cam was 50 degrees advanced and the exhaust was non responsive.. They tested the "cam phasers" (VVT Solenoid?) and they werent sending signals to the cams on their own, but when pinged they would adjust 20 degrees. So their plan of action now is to remove the cam cover and reset the timing including replacing the belt while theyre in there, and then also replacing the cam phasers. Told me it was going to cost $2,900 with all labor parts and after a discount..

This seems insane to me with the car only having ~52k miles, and between them doing this chunk of work and the replacing the serpentine belt, fixing the cam position wires, and replacing the tensioner this belt breaking is going to cost ~$4,200

 

[Ford ST]

I hate to say it but they are definitely over charging you. Every job on every vehicle has a labor time in a book. Take it somewhere else call other dealerships. Ask what the labor time is for a timing belt change probably four hours max and i'm being generous. Unfortunately that information is not free you would have to pay for some type of service, or purchase a labor book to get those times. A honesty dealership or local mechanic shop would have no problem telling you what the labor time is.

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

No shortage of shady/expensive dealerships in the Northern Virginia area (most people in the area have more money than sense, and they know it). I've had decent luck with Koons Ford Sterling, but it sounds like a decent indy repair shop might be a better fit for your issues if it isn't covered under warranty. Good luck!

 

[Blk16 FiST]

I hate to say it but they are definitely over charging you. Every job on every vehicle has a labor time in a book. Take it somewhere else call other dealerships. Ask what the labor time is for a timing belt change probably four hours max and i'm being generous. Unfortunately that information is not free you would have to pay for some type of service, or purchase a labor book to get those times. A honesty dealership or local mechanic shop would have no problem telling you what the labor time is.

No shortage of shady/expensive dealerships in the Northern Virginia area (most people in the area have more money than sense, and they know it). I've had decent luck with Koons Ford Sterling, but it sounds like a decent indy repair shop might be a better fit for your issues if it isn't covered under warranty. Good luck!

I agree, but trying to get it done quickly and getting an appointment at some other shop is really difficult around here. I want to say their hourly labor rate is $165 or $180, and he said that if they started the job at 0800 they wouldn't be done until at least 5pm. I did look up how to change the thing out and its alot to take apart to get at the timing belt, so whatever the book says the job will take is what they're going to charge me.

Typically I would take it to a dealership (where I bought it) in Springfield, or another one in Manassas but the belt broke while driving so I took it to the closest one (which I usually avoid after buying a fusion hybrid there a few years ago). Also its a 2016 so outside of the 5 year 60k mile warranty. Planning to contact carshield and see if they will cover me for it or if they can even cover me with mods and tuning.

 

[Blk16 FiST]

update/ help.. Dealership called yesterday and told me the work was done on the car, but i needed to come reinstall my tune. He explained that everything worked fine after replacing the timing belt and VVT solenoids, and then they reset the KAM and it started not being right not wanting to start and idling rough. I go over install the tune I've been running for about a year, then try to start it and it still doesnt want to start, and when it finally did the idle was rough and tried dying a couple times and if you give it a rev, the RPMs hang for 5-10 seconds before dropping back to almost dying.. I checked the knock count global and on each cylinder individually and nothing showed up, and no check engine lights or other weird indicators of something wrong besides the OAR being at -0.65 when it was at -1.0 when I dropped it off.

I don't have any idea what is causing this, the service tech doesn't know what's going on and they're going to get it in the shop today to do more checks on stuff and try to figure it out. Does anyone know what could be causing these issues??

*I'm also a little worried when he asked if its a tolerance engine, which I've seen talked about on the forum quite a bit. Not gonna lie, feel like I bought a dud version of the little ST... I've owned it for 20k miles and been in the shop for a ton of issues that you wouldn't expect out of a car with 32k miles (when bought), really makes me consider sucking up the loss and getting something else

 

[FiestaSTdude]

update/ help.. Dealership called yesterday and told me the work was done on the car, but i needed to come reinstall my tune. He explained that everything worked fine after replacing the timing belt and VVT solenoids, and then they reset the KAM and it started not being right not wanting to start and idling rough. I go over install the tune I've been running for about a year, then try to start it and it still doesnt want to start, and when it finally did the idle was rough and tried dying a couple times and if you give it a rev, the RPMs hang for 5-10 seconds before dropping back to almost dying.. I checked the knock count global and on each cylinder individually and nothing showed up, and no check engine lights or other weird indicators of something wrong besides the OAR being at -0.65 when it was at -1.0 when I dropped it off.

I don't have any idea what is causing this, the service tech doesn't know what's going on and they're going to get it in the shop today to do more checks on stuff and try to figure it out. Does anyone know what could be causing these issues??

*I'm also a little worried when he asked if its a tolerance engine, which I've seen talked about on the forum quite a bit. Not gonna lie, feel like I bought a dud version of the little ST... I've owned it for 20k miles and been in the shop for a ton of issues that you wouldn't expect out of a car with 32k miles (when bought), really makes me consider sucking up the loss and getting something else

The oar resets when you change tunes. If after driving for a while it didn’t go to -1.00 then you would have a problem.
That’s a bummer you’re having so many issues with your car!

 

[Blk16 FiST]

Thats a good point, which is probably why that showed up. I'm just lost for what could still be wrong with the car after they "fixed" all the issues caused by the belt breaking.
I feel like I got a dud because it has had all the issues people talk about on here plus more and its been in the shop a ton since I bought it unrelated to the mods I've done. Keep thinkin about a civic SI since they are more reliable lol