More STewpid

[STewpid]

Why does the install of a Cobb AP void my warranty?

 

[dyn085]

Because you're changing the engine controls and parameters. It doesn't void your 'entire' warranty, so if your suspension (or whatever) failed it would still be covered. Grenade your block and they might check for breadcrumbs that would indicate an aftermarket tune, and if they find that it's been tuned then they can refuse warranty support.

 

[jdubs]

Why does the install of a Cobb AP void my warranty?

In short it has the capability of drastically changing engine parameters.

 

[rexdriver85]

Because you're changing the engine controls and parameters. It doesn't void your 'entire' warranty, so if your suspension (or whatever) failed it would still be covered. Grenade your block and they might check for breadcrumbs that would indicate an aftermarket tune, and if they find that it's been tuned then they can refuse warranty support.

I think it's been said before but I don't remember. Even if the tune is uninstalled it still leaves a signature in the PCM correct? I remember talking to the FoST guys at one of the meets and they said to disconnect the battery and touch the negative and positive for a minute to do a capacitive discharge. Not sure?

 

[dyn085]

I think it's been said before but I don't remember. Even if the tune is uninstalled it still leaves a signature in the PCM correct? I remember talking to the FoST guys at one of the meets and they said to disconnect the battery and touch the negative and positive for a minute to do a capacitive discharge. Not sure?

Correct, no matter what you do after uninstall the dealership can tell it's been tuned if they look for it.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I believe we should all be honest and accept the that if we go beyond the factory authorized tuning then we pay if we play.
Used FiST engines are available and cheap anyway so not a huge deal to me.

Look into Mountune as they have factory authorized tuning parts if you want a warranty

 

[Ronbo]

Let's not forget that merely installing a Cobb AP doesn't void your warranty. In the event of a failure of a component it's the burden to the company to PROVE that the AP caused the failure if they are to deny warranty coverage.

 

[dyn085]

Let's not forget that merely installing a Cobb AP doesn't void your warranty. In the event of a failure of a component it's the burden to the company to PROVE that the AP caused the failure if they are to deny warranty coverage.

That's rainbow and unicorn thinking-not how the real world actually plays out. If you threw a rod (for the sake of discussion) and they found out that you had a tune then you can pretty much guarantee that they will refuse to fix it under warranty if they're not a cool dealership. Then it's up to you to hire the best lawyer that you can afford to try and have that change the situation.

And that's just the beginning. Then you will be the one that has to prove that your tune didn't cause the failure in order to win your case.

 

[C. love]

That's rainbow and unicorn thinking-not how the real world actually plays out. If you threw a rod (for the sake of discussion) and they found out that you had a tune then you can pretty much guarantee that they will refuse to fix it under warranty if they're not a cool dealership. Then it's up to you to hire the best lawyer that you can afford to try and have that change the situation.

And that's just the beginning. Then you will be the one that has to prove that your tune didn't cause the failure in order to win your case.

Agree with this.

In the end the motor grenades take it in cross your fingers. If they see a tune and refuse to fix it then its just easier to pony up the cash to fix it yourself cause chances are you will loose the battle.

 

[STewpid]

Thanks for all the great replies. No matter the situation, if you want to play you gotta pay! I have no interest in any radical tunes at this time. I was thinking of using it as a way to monitor multiple engine functions in one convenient location. I looked at the Cobb site and found they have a package with the AP, RMM and higher capacity air filter for$650. From everything I've read on this forum the RMM is a beneficial upgrade. I have not priced competing products to know if this is a reasonable deal or not. After reading the first few replies I went to the Mountune site to find alternates. Mountune products are supposed to be factory sanctioned so I figured I might find comparable products. Lo and behold, there's the Cobb AP for $500 by itself. Obviously I have to give more thought to this before I pull the trigger. Thanks for the benefit of your experience and opinions.

 

[Svvift]

if using mountune products, to be covered under warranty, they must be installed by FORD or else they are not covered.

as others have said, pay to play.
If anything goes wrong with mine, i will likely not even bother with trying to go thru warranty unless its absolutely catastrophic and then still, i would be honest about it all. I'm currently just running a OTS Stage 3 tune but will be getting a protune eventually.
now if my MFT goes out or something unrelated to tune/performance, i will take it in.

 

[degnerd]

if using mountune products, to be covered under warranty, they must be installed by FORD or else they are not covered.

Key being Mountune products. Not Cobb products sold by Mountune.

 

[Ronbo]

That's rainbow and unicorn thinking-not how the real world actually plays out. If you threw a rod (for the sake of discussion) and they found out that you had a tune then you can pretty much guarantee that they will refuse to fix it under warranty if they're not a cool dealership. Then it's up to you to hire the best lawyer that you can afford to try and have that change the situation.

And that's just the beginning. Then you will be the one that has to prove that your tune didn't cause the failure in order to win your case.

Well, if you threw a rod there is a good chance the tune had something to do with it. Anyway, the law puts the burden of proof on the manufacturer denying the claim, not on you. They have to prove the tune was responsible to deny warranty coverage. I do agree that you will have to lawyer-up and the process will be lengthy, but you are not required to prove a negative.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I guess some do not realize that one of the biggest reasons this country is in the shits is lawyers and those that depend on them for BS suits and then the lawyers go into politics rewriting the constitution to fit their idea of what is right and wrong as long as profitable.

What ever happened to taking on responsibility for what one does!

 

[dyn085]

Well, if you threw a rod there is a good chance the tune had something to do with it. Anyway, the law puts the burden of proof on the manufacturer denying the claim, not on you. They have to prove the tune was responsible to deny warranty coverage. I do agree that you will have to lawyer-up and the process will be lengthy, but you are not required to prove a negative.

Let's just pretend that the dealership does exactly what you just did and assumes that the tune caused the damage with no other proof. They void your warranty-claim for the engine, refuse to look into it, and you're out the cost of a longblock and labor. Then, within 'x' period of time other FiST's start throwing rods due to a manufacturing defect by the connecting rod supplier.

A bit extreme, but it's still an accurate representation of a scenario that could happen. In the FoST community there were some people that had their engines not-covered when cylinder 4 popped due to having a tune. This is all fine and we can assume that the tune was responsible if we want, but other untuned and completely stock FoST's were popping cylinder 4 as well.

What it really comes down to is your dealership. There are plenty of cool dealerships that are mod-friendly, but there are also plenty that are not. If you get stuck with one that isn't then there's a good chance that they will void your warranty claim and when they do you will completely understand what I'm saying. I've heard plenty of stories and it's even happened to me so trust me when I say that your initial statement is great in concept but won't work out that way in reality, regardless of what you think the law says.

 

[JPGC]

Quite honestly, by the time you lawyer up and attempt to fight a losing battle with the dealership/ Ford on whether or not your tune or mod was responsible for the engine damage, etc...you may as well had bought a new or lightly used engine to replace the damaged one due to the time and price of the lawyer, legal fees, court hearings, etc. Ford can afford to go through the process...can you? ;-) That's the price you pay if you break when you play.

 

[Ronbo]

What it really comes down to is your dealership. There are plenty of cool dealerships that are mod-friendly, but there are also plenty that are not. If you get stuck with one that isn't then there's a good chance that they will void your warranty claim and when they do you will completely understand what I'm saying. I've heard plenty of stories and it's even happened to me so trust me when I say that your initial statement is great in concept but won't work out that way in reality, regardless of what you think the law says.

Just a quick response to this then I'm done. I don't want to argue.

First, a dealership cannot void your warranty. Only the manufacturer can do that. The dealer can refuse to repair your car if they so choose, but there could be consequences for them.

Second, it's not what *I* think the law says. The law is very specific and clear in this case. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer.

 

[dyn085]

Just a quick response to this then I'm done. I don't want to argue.

First, a dealership cannot void your warranty. Only the manufacturer can do that. The dealer can refuse to repair your car if they so choose, but there could be consequences for them.

Second, it's not what *I* think the law says. The law is very specific and clear in this case. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer.

I don't know why so many people seem to feel that discussions are arguments. If it was so black-and-white this thread would have been done long ago. Unfortunately, it's not.

I understand what you are saying and you're not wrong per se, and I've already said that. What you're not getting is the fact that it's not so black-and-white in reality and that the way things should work is not always the way things do work. I, along with many other owners of modified vehicles, have had legitimate warranty work denied due to aftermarket modifications. I could have pressed the issue, gotten a lawyer, proved my case and been found correct and had the work covered, but it doesn't change the fact that I was denied warranty work due to mods and my modifications were listed in the system.

On the flip side, I've taken modified cars in for warranty work and not had issues. Again, it mostly depends on the dealership. The law can say all it wants, but arguing that is a disservice to everyone like myself that has had that door slammed shut in their face. We all know that installing a tune won't have an effect on a warranty claim if your suspension fails, but people need to be cognizant of the fact that if you tune your engine and something fails with your engine that there is a very good chance that you'll be paying out of pocket.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I agree with Dyn085 as this is the reality of what can and does happen no matter what the law says.

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As already stated in slightly different words, take responsibility, if you do something that voids your warranty then just live with it, pay the price, move on, you can always make more money but you cannot buy personal integrity.

 

[STewpid]

Thanks for the replies. I said earlier in this thread that my intent is not to increase power, but, to use the AP as a substitute for up to six separate gauges. First, there isn't any room for any more gauges. Second, it would mean more sending units and more wires through the firewall to feed said gauges. The OEM idiot light gauges don't seem to be accurate. They give a general range of what's going on. I'm 63 and like my toys. I go out of my way to take care of them so that they will take care of me. My 98 F150 has 233K on the clock and runs great (never modified). I like my older boats with their nasty old two stroke engines. If you can read my trend it's obvious that until I bought the FIST I have surrounded myself with dinosaur machines. I took delivery 7/31 and am figuring out that I'm getting more smiles per mile with the Fist than with my HD. I'm just another old fart pretending to enjoy life!