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New Manual Driver - Incredibly frustrated and feeling regret after 5 days. Any help?

ZDEG

New Member
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#41
Hi there, I'm new to this forum but I was actually in your shoes 2 weeks ago.

I started my manual driving journey on my friends 2011 Honda Civic SI. I luckily got my head start with that. Granted, I did not own this car so after that night worth of 20 min of learning I had to find other ways. For a long time I test drove Civic SI's at other dealerships because that's what I thought I wanted until my fiance found a Fiesta ST that I was maybe considering looking into. We both love top gear so she remembered Hammond's rave on the Fiesta ST.

Anyway, here's how I learned with the manual gearbox considering I bought the car with not very much chops.


When you start the car always make sure the shifter is in neutral. Quite often people will leave the gearbox shifted in 1st or reverse depending on the plane that they are parked in for safety reasons but that's a different thing.

The next is the dreaded 1st gear. This is the hardest one to master and always will be because it's the touchiest. This is the wild bronco if you will, and you must tame it. You'll find that shifting isn't much of a problem as you're going faster and going to each new gear. The first gear you'll want to let go of the clutch halfway, and slowly begin to apply the gas. When you hear the engine rev slowly more and more you'll want to let loose of the clutch slowly as well. If letting loose of the clutch halfway isn't feeling it just try a little more each time.

You're trying to find the "Sweet spot" of when the car starts to begin to produce forward motion. I certainly recommend finding a non busy road or maybe a parking lot late at night and just go from neutral to first, then second. This is the main section that is the hardest. Afterwards, put the clutch in, shift the car to neutral, then brake, and repeat. Remember, halfway or a little more is where you'll want to gradually press on the gas. Very little motion should produce but you'll find that's when you need to let go of the clutch gradually from there. I drive a bit for work, and I drive in the city section so I'm often shifting through all gears so I had to learn quickly or else I'd make many people angry.

I think you'll find it from there. The manual gearbox is a bit of an artform but it's certainly able to be learned. I'm sure you'll own that first gear soon enough.
 


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Summerville
#42
There is a learning curve. If you know someone that drives stick shift. Maybe they could ride along with you. I guess the most important thing is not to give up. It takes a while to get the hang of it. I've driven manuals for about 27 years. But I remember a little frustration in learning. Those inclines & hills. Especially when a car is behind you. Give it a little time. You'll probably be glad you did.
 


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Bedford
#43
When you start the car always make sure the shifter is in neutral. Quite often people will leave the gearbox shifted in 1st or reverse depending on the plane that they are parked in for safety reasons but that's a different thing.
It's always good practice to leave the car parked in first gear, even on flat ground to get used to always parking and putting it in first. One day your parking brake my fail and if it's not in 1st your car may end up at the bottom of a hill. This is experience talking. I always left my car in neutral when I parked until one day my car rolled down a hill because the parking brake was giving out. Luckily it rolled up on a curb and didn't go real far so it didn't hit anything or do any damage. If it were to happen again I may not be so lucky so I'm not taking a chance and I trained myself to always put the car in first when I parked. Just be aware that it is in gear when you start the car so pull it to neutral before you let off the clutch or you'll lurch forward.
 


Waterfan

Active member
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#44
Hey everyone. I'm new here and glad to join, hopefully I can stay :-/ I had a 2011 Fiesta and loved it in auto. Never drove manual and wanted to treat myself with a better car so I got the 2016 Fiesta ST. It's a great car and looks wonderful. However, my first time ever manual was at the dealer giving me a lesson. Everyone told me to go for it, you'll learn in no time. Now 5 days later, 250 miles driven on highway and city, and a few hours practicing in an empty lot and I'm feeling a real regret for my purchase. Maybe I'll never get it? I'm here seeking advice SPECIFIC to the ST. Please keep in mind I never once drove manual so take it easy on me.

The issue is I look online and see so much conflicting information. "Slam the gas hard and let off the clutch fast". "Let off the clutch slow", "Find the bite point (I don't even know what the hell that is!"

I'm driving with no AC on and no music, trying to watch the tach and learn to the sounds but really struggling the following areas. Again my issue isn't that I don't want to practice. I don't know WHAT to practice. Everyone I ask or read online seems to change. I'm trying to learn how to make the driving experience smooth at first. I'm assuming after that I can have a little more fun accelerating.

As of now I stall out about 1/5 stops I come to, the others I either squeel the tires or the car jerks. I've shifted from 3rd to 2nd when trying to go to 4th a few times and that scared the shit out of me! Anytime I downshift then hit the gas again the car jerks.

Main Issues:

1) Going from stop in first. Again I don't even know how fast or slow to pull the clutch up. Can someone explain? I don't know what "Bite the clutch" means, I don't feel anything. I usually try to go slow as I slowly go on gas but it squeels the tires... better than stalling I guess.

2) 1-2nd gear. This is NEVER smooth. It jerks like crazy. Someone told me to let the revs drop, so if I shift from 1st at 3500 to let them drop to where they will be in 2nd. How the hell should I know where they will be? Also while letting them drop do I keep the all the way to the floor? Do I shift fast and let off clutch shift slow? - Someone told me to always hit the gas as I let off the clutch so I been doing that.

3) Downshifting for turns. Often I'll go into a turn and slow down to 1st or 2nd gear. As soon as I let off the clutch and hit the gas the car jerks. Anyway to prevent this?

4) What the hell is 5th gear for? Just generally speaking. Even as an engineer I'm confused... Anytime I'm in 4th I'm already going like 40 mph so it makes more sense to go to 6th gear. Is 5th just for highway passing?

5) Any other general tips or things to avoid?

Maybe in my 30s I missed the boat, I don't know. The few times it shifted well I had lot of fun getting up to highway speed. But after nearly being rear ended by an angry old man, and having about a dozen people flipping me off or cursing at me when I stall at light or jerk forward you can imagine how I'm a little less eager to drive anywhere now.

Thanks for any help :-/

Edit: Also I want to learn the PROPER way not the fast way or the shortcut. The reason is I've driven with people who drove manual for years who still had the car jerk at times. I don't want to ease into a shortcut and be a crummy driver. I'm sure it's possible to have fun and shift smoothly so I'm all ears. Be my Yoda please.
1. While learning, let the clutch up/out EXTREMELY SLOWLY while keeping rpms more or less stable so you can feel where it "bites" (also called engagement point). Even after the car starts to move forward do not be in a rush to let the clutch up/out. when you start to move bring the rpms up slightly while letting the clutch out(up) slightly. Learning the engagement point is everything. Learning it so it becomes second nature is the key to smoothness.

2. ALWAYS depress the clutch past the engagement point before starting to release the accelerator. Move the selector to 2nd (pull it towards you slightly to ensure it is 2nd and not 3rd). Now employ the same careful method as #1. Bring clutch up slowly and add rpms slowly after the the clutch bites/engages. Do not be in a rush.

3. Just your continued learning process in smoothness. TIP: It is generally accepted that you want to slow down completely and complete your gear shift BEFORE starting the turn instead of after, and certainly not during.

4. For me, 5th is for cruising (no incline) at 40-44 mph. 45 mph is minimum speed for 6th. I skip 5th to 6th from 4th all the time though. This is proof that we have a nice close ratio gearbox. Excellent for performance, but added complexity for learning ("longer" and fewer gears = easier)

5A. The "going very slowly" advice above is actually called "slipping the clutch" and not the best for clutch life. But it's a necessary part of learning and who REALLY cares if you replace your clutch 5-10k miles sooner than normal? Small price to pay for the amount of fun and control you get from a manual.

5B. Try to remain calm and not overreact to "jerky" moments. The jerkiness is mainly because you are changing the accelerator and clutch movements out of sync and overcorrecting to the initial jerkiness. Just go slow with both feet and get a "feel" for it.

5C. Try not to watch the tach (OK from full stop to 1st, but doesn't help you memorize the rpms for any other situation). Learn by feel and sound instead. Be patient with yourself until it is second nature/you have muscle memory.

5D. Breathe and ignore the haters. Slap a "student driver" sticker on your rear end and MAYBE avoid SOME of the cursing :)
 


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#45
This thread brings back memories. I was an absolute disaster while learning to drive a manual. It got better after a few weeks. 20 years later, I still laugh at myself when I get in a car with an auto. Damn left foot inevitably goes for a swing and a miss when that third pedal isn't there.
 


M-Sport fan

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#46
Just be aware that it is in gear when you start the car so pull it to neutral before you let off the clutch or you'll lurch forward.
These cars do not have a clutch pedal/starter switch interface which REQUIRES you to fully depress the clutch pedal in order to start the engine, thereby preventing the above from ever happening??

I thought this was mandated by federal motor vehicle laws?
 


M-Sport fan

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#47
20 years later, I still laugh at myself when I get in a car with an auto. Damn left foot inevitably goes for a swing and a miss when that third pedal isn't there.
HA! You too huh?

My first manual, and the one I learned on, was a 1969 Delta 88 RAGTOP with the 'economy' 455 c.i. V-8 with a small Rochester 2 barrel carb on it, and a 'three on the tree' column shifter!! (Believe it or not, this beast also had MANUAL steering!!! [crazyeye] )

That was 1974, and EVERY personal car (driven only by me, not ex-wife) I've ever owned since then was a manual gearbox, as well as being a 2 door coupe/hatch. SAVE THE MANUALS!!!

This will be the first 4 door, turbo car I've ever owned for personal, daily use (I did own a '90 T-Bird SC manual right before the Z28, which also was the very first Ford, and boosted car, I've owned).

Coming out of a 4th gen, LS1 f body with an LS7 clutch, the FiSt's stock clutch seems like it has a retractable click pen's springs in the clutch diaphram/pressure plate to me, so it is almost like learning all over again.

I am GLAD I am 'hoofing it' for the next few months without a car while waiting for the Blue Oval to take their sweet ol' time building mine, so that it will not feel so strange starting out in the FiST (fresh start).

BTW; has anyone heard from the OP about his progress lately?

I HOPE he was able to adapt and learn his car's clutch, and is HAPPILY keeping and enjoying it!!
 


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#48
These cars do not have a clutch pedal/starter switch interface which REQUIRES you to fully depress the clutch pedal in order to start the engine, thereby preventing the above from ever happening??

I thought this was mandated by federal motor vehicle laws?
What I mean is when I was learning to leave my car parked in first gear I would forget I had it in first, depress the clutch and turn the car on, and then let off the clutch still in gear but meaning to have it in neutral. Lurch forward and stall because it's in gear with the car on. Even worse if I was on a flat surface so I took off the parking brake and wasn't pressing the brake pedal. Since previously I had taught myself to park the car in neutral relearning that the car was in first gear when I started it threw me off for awhile. Maybe no one else had this issue because you learned correctly, but I was trying to tell anyone that parks their car in neutral to stop doing that and have them be aware of what may happen while trying to learn that.

Normally when I start the car now I depress the clutch and turn on the car and then move the shifter to neutral, then let off the clutch and let the car idle for a bit while I throw on my sunglasses or change the radio or whatever. You should let the car idle for about 10-15 seconds before you start moving anyway from a cold start to get the oil flowing so that's always been my habit. So I almost always let off the clutch after starting the car.
 


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#49
What I mean is when I was learning to leave my car parked in first gear I would forget I had it in first, depress the clutch and turn the car on, and then let off the clutch still in gear but meaning to have it in neutral. Lurch forward and stall because it's in gear with the car on. Even worse if I was on a flat surface so I took off the parking brake and wasn't pressing the brake pedal. Since previously I had taught myself to park the car in neutral relearning that the car was in first gear when I started it threw me off for awhile. Maybe no one else had this issue because you learned correctly, but I was trying to tell anyone that parks their car in neutral to stop doing that and have them be aware of what may happen while trying to learn that.

Normally when I start the car now I depress the clutch and turn on the car and then move the shifter to neutral, then let off the clutch and let the car idle for a bit while I throw on my sunglasses or change the radio or whatever. You should let the car idle for about 10-15 seconds before you start moving anyway from a cold start to get the oil flowing so that's always been my habit. So I almost always let off the clutch after starting the car.
Actually, when it comes to getting oil flowing, idling after a cold start is about the worst thing you can do.
 


Intuit

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#50
.................... 20 years later, I still laugh at myself when I get in a car with an auto. Damn left foot inevitably goes for a swing and a miss when that third pedal isn't there.
Well unfortunately, I have one of those heat-seaking left foots that always manages find the brake pedal instead of the floor. Talk about [whip]-lash on a passenger! Fortunately no one has been behind me the two three times this has happened. All of my vehicles are clutches so on the rare occasion I drive an auto, try to remember to literally cross my left leg under the right.

===================

Been awhile since Engineer has posted to his thread. Hope he didn't give up on us or worse, wreck it.

Someone already mentioned it, but turn off hill-assist in the menus. It makes finding and learning the true friction point difficult. Also, you must learn hill take-offs before you're stuck in a situation where someone puts themselves five inches off your bumper on a steep hill. Pull the hand-brake and hold on to it with your thumb depressing the release button, start your take-off, and quickly but gradually release the hand brake. Repeat this until you're automatic with it, because it may be a lllooonnnggg time before you'll need it again.

Also, don't overthink it. This was my problem initially. You know how an automatic shifts. Best advice a friend gave me was, once you get it out of first, just treat it like an automatic. 1-2 shifts are different only because there is a larger difference between gear ratios. All this means is you have to delay your clutch release a *tad* bit longer versus other gears.
 


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Sheboygan
#52
What I mean is when I was learning to leave my car parked in first gear I would forget I had it in first, depress the clutch and turn the car on, and then let off the clutch still in gear but meaning to have it in neutral. Lurch forward and stall because it's in gear with the car on. Even worse if I was on a flat surface so I took off the parking brake and wasn't pressing the brake pedal. Since previously I had taught myself to park the car in neutral relearning that the car was in first gear when I started it threw me off for awhile. Maybe no one else had this issue because you learned correctly, but I was trying to tell anyone that parks their car in neutral to stop doing that and have them be aware of what may happen while trying to learn that.

Normally when I start the car now I depress the clutch and turn on the car and then move the shifter to neutral, then let off the clutch and let the car idle for a bit while I throw on my sunglasses or change the radio or whatever. You should let the car idle for about 10-15 seconds before you start moving anyway from a cold start to get the oil flowing so that's always been my habit. So I almost always let off the clutch after starting the car.
Uhhh, 10-15 seconds won't hurt anything.
I never said it'd hurt anything, just mentioned that it's pretty much the worst choice because he mentioned it as a benefit.
 


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#53
Why would idling be worse than immediately starting to move? From what I understand, and it makes perfect sense to me, is that oil drips down from the higher points of the engine when it sits. So when you start the engine you're starting it with low oil up at the top. So letting it idle at low RPM for 10 seconds or so certainly only sounds like it would help get oil back up the the cylinders before you start driving at a higher RPM. Because at a higher RPM you have higher friction when there's low oil there. And you certainly don't want to peg the throttle until the engine is at operating temp, not that it takes long in the heat of the Summer...
 


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#54
At idle vs. placing a light load on the engine, takes far longer to get oil throughout the engine, so things like lifters, etc. have minimal lubrication while idling after a cold start. The 10-15 seconds you're describing is pretty much harmless though.
 




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