New Manual Driver - Incredibly frustrated and feeling regret after 5 days. Any help?

[Engineer1384]

Hey everyone. I'm new here and glad to join, hopefully I can stay :-/ I had a 2011 Fiesta and loved it in auto. Never drove manual and wanted to treat myself with a better car so I got the 2016 Fiesta ST. It's a great car and looks wonderful. However, my first time ever manual was at the dealer giving me a lesson. Everyone told me to go for it, you'll learn in no time. Now 5 days later, 250 miles driven on highway and city, and a few hours practicing in an empty lot and I'm feeling a real regret for my purchase. Maybe I'll never get it? I'm here seeking advice SPECIFIC to the ST. Please keep in mind I never once drove manual so take it easy on me.

The issue is I look online and see so much conflicting information. "Slam the gas hard and let off the clutch fast". "Let off the clutch slow", "Find the bite point (I don't even know what the hell that is!"

I'm driving with no AC on and no music, trying to watch the tach and learn to the sounds but really struggling the following areas. Again my issue isn't that I don't want to practice. I don't know WHAT to practice. Everyone I ask or read online seems to change. I'm trying to learn how to make the driving experience smooth at first. I'm assuming after that I can have a little more fun accelerating.

As of now I stall out about 1/5 stops I come to, the others I either squeel the tires or the car jerks. I've shifted from 3rd to 2nd when trying to go to 4th a few times and that scared the shit out of me! Anytime I downshift then hit the gas again the car jerks.

Main Issues:

1) Going from stop in first. Again I don't even know how fast or slow to pull the clutch up. Can someone explain? I don't know what "Bite the clutch" means, I don't feel anything. I usually try to go slow as I slowly go on gas but it squeels the tires... better than stalling I guess.

2) 1-2nd gear. This is NEVER smooth. It jerks like crazy. Someone told me to let the revs drop, so if I shift from 1st at 3500 to let them drop to where they will be in 2nd. How the hell should I know where they will be? Also while letting them drop do I keep the all the way to the floor? Do I shift fast and let off clutch shift slow? - Someone told me to always hit the gas as I let off the clutch so I been doing that.

3) Downshifting for turns. Often I'll go into a turn and slow down to 1st or 2nd gear. As soon as I let off the clutch and hit the gas the car jerks. Anyway to prevent this?

4) What the hell is 5th gear for? Just generally speaking. Even as an engineer I'm confused... Anytime I'm in 4th I'm already going like 40 mph so it makes more sense to go to 6th gear. Is 5th just for highway passing?

5) Any other general tips or things to avoid?

Maybe in my 30s I missed the boat, I don't know. The few times it shifted well I had lot of fun getting up to highway speed. But after nearly being rear ended by an angry old man, and having about a dozen people flipping me off or cursing at me when I stall at light or jerk forward you can imagine how I'm a little less eager to drive anywhere now.

Thanks for any help :-/

Edit: Also I want to learn the PROPER way not the fast way or the shortcut. The reason is I've driven with people who drove manual for years who still had the car jerk at times. I don't want to ease into a shortcut and be a crummy driver. I'm sure it's possible to have fun and shift smoothly so I'm all ears. Be my Yoda please.

 

[koozy]

practice.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

The first thing i do with a manual transmission vehicle that i'm not familiar with is to start it, put it in first gear, and let out the clutch SLOWLY (without touching the gas pedal) until it feels like its going to start moving the car. The rpm's will start to drop, the car might shake some. Push the clutch back in, try it again. You should get a feel for where this happens - it becomes more muscle memory than anything else, at least to me. that is where you need to start giving it gas - the point at which the clutch is starting to engage or "bite". The basic principle is that you let off of the clutch while simultaneously giving it gas. It's like a trade-off - less clutch, more gas, until the clutch is all the way out (then you just have to keep the rpms above 1000). Do this a few times in an empty lot, get a real feel for taking off smoothly. once you have that down, the other gears should come easier, and you can move on from there.
I will say that the clutch in this car seems a lot touchier than others that i've owned (f150's). It still jerks a little sometimes for me (I've been driving this one for about 4k miles/since beginning of May of this year).
I hope this helps you some. I'm sure EVERYONE will have something to add to this. This is the way I was taught, and i've put on somewhere around 150,000 miles on various manual transmission vehicles thru the years.

 

[Hijinx]

The first thing i do with a manual transmission vehicle that i'm not familiar with is to start it, put it in first gear, and let out the clutch SLOWLY (without touching the gas pedal) until it feels like its going to start moving the car. The rpm's will start to drop, the car might shake some. Push the clutch back in, try it again. You should get a feel for where this happens - it becomes more muscle memory than anything else, at least to me. that is where you need to start giving it gas - the point at which the clutch is starting to engage or "bite". The basic principle is that you let off of the clutch while simultaneously giving it gas. It's like a trade-off - less clutch, more gas, until the clutch is all the way out (then you just have to keep the rpms above 1000). Do this a few times in an empty lot, get a real feel for taking off smoothly. once you have that down, the other gears should come easier, and you can move on from there.
I will say that the clutch in this car seems a lot touchier than others that i've owned (f150's). It still jerks a little sometimes for me (I've been driving this one for about 4k miles/since beginning of May of this year).
I hope this helps you some. I'm sure EVERYONE will have something to add to this. This is the way I was taught, and i've put on somewhere around 150,000 miles on various manual transmission vehicles thru the years.

What was described here is all you need to practice for the basics.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[Engineer1384]

The first thing i do with a manual transmission vehicle that i'm not familiar with is to start it, put it in first gear, and let out the clutch SLOWLY (without touching the gas pedal) until it feels like its going to start moving the car. The rpm's will start to drop, the car might shake some. Push the clutch back in, try it again. You should get a feel for where this happens - it becomes more muscle memory than anything else, at least to me. that is where you need to start giving it gas - the point at which the clutch is starting to engage or "bite". The basic principle is that you let off of the clutch while simultaneously giving it gas. It's like a trade-off - less clutch, more gas, until the clutch is all the way out (then you just have to keep the rpms above 1000). Do this a few times in an empty lot, get a real feel for taking off smoothly. once you have that down, the other gears should come easier, and you can move on from there.
I will say that the clutch in this car seems a lot touchier than others that i've owned (f150's). It still jerks a little sometimes for me (I've been driving this one for about 4k miles/since beginning of May of this year).
I hope this helps you some. I'm sure EVERYONE will have something to add to this. This is the way I was taught, and i've put on somewhere around 150,000 miles on various manual transmission vehicles thru the years.

Thanks for the help!

Do you think you could quantify how far up the clutch goes till it bites. Like %? Also same thing how slow is slow... Like a couple seconds? And how far should I push the gas down? Like halfway or less?

 

[BoostBumps]

Congrats and Welcome Aboard....practice...practice...practice

 

[D1JL]

Welcome Aboard.

As Spaceman_Spiff has said, the first thing to learn is just starting and stopping.
In an empty lot just practice this.
Don't worry about shifting or driving until you can master just starting and stopping.



Dave

 

[koozy]

stop reading about it and go do. practice.

 

[BobMaxed]

That's a tough question. As with a lot of things the answer is It Depends...... If you've got your mother or mother-in-law riding with you you'll want to avoid jerks. And it can be done with the FiST. I'd say smooth movements will provide smoother take offs. After driving a stick shift for decades I find it hard to describe. The "bite point" I suspect is when the clutch is fully engaged with the pressure plate and is not slipping. To take off smoothly there needs to be some slippage. When I've taught a beginner I've always tried to use a car that can actually be launched with out any extra throttle and having the driver very slowly bringing the clutch up. You soon learn where the bite point is. This ends up being a very slow launch. Not the type of thing for everyday driving. The next step is to rev the car off of idle and move the clutch pedal a little faster. In the long run it isn't so much a question of slow of fast its being smooth. The same thing with shifting between gears. Start off being slow and deliberate with the clutch and gear shift. As you gain confidence you'll be quicker. For now I would avoid using any wide open throttle. It won't take to much longer and it will be second nature and a lot more fun.

 

[bgrazman]

How about this one... empty flat parking lot drill: start the car, depress the clutch and put the car in third gear. Apply NO gas pedal--slowly let off the clutch and repeat until you can get the car moving without killing the engine. Once you can do this 3 times in a row, try the same thing in second gear & then in first.

Now you have a feel for the clutch point.... do it in first but now use the gas (probably easiest to take it up to 2500 RPM and hold it there the first time... then you can get to the clutch point & add gas to 2000 rpm, get the car moving & off you go).


AND PRACTICE! once you can do this successfully, the only way to get good is to develop that muscle memory & practice.

 

[koozy]

AND PRACTICE! once you can do this successfully, the only way to get good is to develop that muscle memory & practice.

Bingo. Anyone that has learned to ride a motorcycle can relate that they didn't learn by reading about it, they learned by doing.

 

[Fist808]

Main Issues:

1) Going from stop in first. Again I don't even know how fast or slow to pull the clutch up. Can someone explain? I don't know what "Bite the clutch" means, I don't feel anything. I usually try to go slow as I slowly go on gas but it squeels the tires... better than stalling I guess.

In a parking lot just practicing getting the car moving without using the gas. Lift up on the clutch very slowly and around halfway you will feel the clutch start to grab. At this point the car will start to move slowly and you can lightly apply gas as you slowly continue to let off the clutch. Get the feel for where the clutch engages and the car starts to move. Once you are more sensitive to the "bite" point, or where the clutch starts to engage you can pull up on the clutch faster and slow down around this bite point and apply a little more gas. For the most part in a normal driving situation your gonna be slow up on the clutch and light on the gas from a stop.

2) 1-2nd gear. This is NEVER smooth. It jerks like crazy. Someone told me to let the revs drop, so if I shift from 1st at 3500 to let them drop to where they will be in 2nd. How the hell should I know where they will be? Also while letting them drop do I keep the all the way to the floor? Do I shift fast and let off clutch shift slow? - Someone told me to always hit the gas as I let off the clutch so I been doing that.

Mitigate this by coming off the clutch slower and staying off the gas till the clutch is all the way out. Getting an aftermarket rear motor mount always will help.

3) Downshifting for turns. Often I'll go into a turn and slow down to 1st or 2nd gear. As soon as I let off the clutch and hit the gas the car jerks. Anyway to prevent this?
Generally speaking your almost never ever gonna downshift into first, parking lots and coming into steep drive ways might be two common exceptions. You should be taking majority of turns in 3rd and slower turns in 2nd. To prevent jerkiness while downshifting you can either come off the clutch very slowly or blip the throttle and rev match to smooth out your downshifts. Your goal when you blip the throttle would be to bring up the revs to near where they would be in the lower gear.

4) What the hell is 5th gear for? Just generally speaking. Even as an engineer I'm confused... Anytime I'm in 4th I'm already going like 40 mph so it makes more sense to go to 6th gear. Is 5th just for highway passing?

Very very generally speaking better mpg and acceleration with the extra gear. I am sure someone else while chime in and answer with a better and more in depth/technical answer.

 

[Engineer1384]

Thanks.

Any advice on shifting from 1st to 2nd without jerking? Does the same principle apply? Go up to bite point without gas then lift up slowly while adding gas?

 

[2Cool]

Thanks for the help!

Do you think you could quantify how far up the clutch goes till it bites. Like %? Also same thing how slow is slow... Like a couple seconds? And how far should I push the gas down? Like halfway or less?

Varies by car, you need to learn how yours works. Lift smoothly off the clutch and press the gas smoothly, for a normal start you shouldn't need much gas pedal at all. Stop looking for specific measurements and get a feel for how it works. Like anything else, if you overthink it you will screw it up.

 

[parapraxis24]

Main Issues:

1) Going from stop in first. Again I don't even know how fast or slow to pull the clutch up. Can someone explain? I don't know what "Bite the clutch" means, I don't feel anything. I usually try to go slow as I slowly go on gas but it squeels the tires... better than stalling I guess.

2) 1-2nd gear. This is NEVER smooth. It jerks like crazy. Someone told me to let the revs drop, so if I shift from 1st at 3500 to let them drop to where they will be in 2nd. How the hell should I know where they will be? Also while letting them drop do I keep the all the way to the floor? Do I shift fast and let off clutch shift slow? - Someone told me to always hit the gas as I let off the clutch so I been doing that.

3) Downshifting for turns. Often I'll go into a turn and slow down to 1st or 2nd gear. As soon as I let off the clutch and hit the gas the car jerks. Anyway to prevent this?

4) What the hell is 5th gear for? Just generally speaking. Even as an engineer I'm confused... Anytime I'm in 4th I'm already going like 40 mph so it makes more sense to go to 6th gear. Is 5th just for highway passing?

5) Any other general tips or things to avoid?

Maybe in my 30s I missed the boat, I don't know. The few times it shifted well I had lot of fun getting up to highway speed. But after nearly being rear ended by an angry old man, and having about a dozen people flipping me off or cursing at me when I stall at light or jerk forward you can imagine how I'm a little less eager to drive anywhere now.

Thanks for any help :-/

Edit: Also I want to learn the PROPER way not the fast way or the shortcut. The reason is I've driven with people who drove manual for years who still had the car jerk at times. I don't want to ease into a shortcut and be a crummy driver. I'm sure it's possible to have fun and shift smoothly so I'm all ears. Be my Yoda please.

1)Starting in a manual is the hardest part of driving one, once you get that the rest comes with just driving the car. When someone mentions the "bite point" of the clutch, they mean the point when you're letting off the pedal and it starts to engage on the flywheel. In a flat area, flat so you don't roll, try slowly, slowly, slowly releasing the clutch until you feel the car begin to pull forward; that is the bite point. Your leg will build up a muscle memory of that point where the clutch grabs, and this is the point when you want to start easing into the throttle.

The clutch pedal should be treated like the opposite of the throttle. You don't just hammer the gas pedal when you're starting off (maybe you do, but you know what I mean), you slowly ease into it. The same with the clutch, just the opposite. You slowly ease your way off the clutch until you reach the point of engagement and you slowly ease into the gas while still slowly releasing the clutch.

2)It's the car, not you. The 1-2 shift in this car is almost never smooth unless you feather the clutch when letting off. It's a combination of the heavy dual mass flywheel and Ford attempting to reduce emissions by letting the RPMs hang for a moment when you push in the clutch. What's going on with the jerkiness is that transmission gearing allows for a certain engine RPM for a particular vehicle speed. So when the RPMs are higher (rev hang I mentioned) than what they should be for that particular gear and vehicle speed, the car will jerk forward until the engine RPMs match the vehicle speed. Normal every day driving doesn't require lightning fast shifts, smooth and deliberate is what you're after. As for what to do when letting the RPMs fall, just leave the clutch pedal pressed on the floor, you won't hurt anything leaving it there for a second or two while shifting. And don't blip the throttle after shifting, it'll exacerbate the jerkiness you feel (related to what I wrote about earlier).

3)Downshifting takes as much practice as starting, but isn't as hard to learn. What you need to look for is the speed you're taking the turn at and that will let you know what gear you should be in. That'll come with time and just learning how the car operates. I know which gear to be in just by how fast I think I'm going (I don't actually look at the speedometer). A tip for "smoothness," if you're turning between 10-15 mph 2nd gear is fine, 20+ 3rd is better suited. As for the jerkiness when downshifting, it again relates to engine RPMs and vehicle speed. Avoid/prevent it by feathering out the clutch instead of just dumping it. Dumping it means just taking your foot clean off the pedal without slowly releasing it.

4)Yea the gearing is quite short on this transmission but 5th is well suited to back roads with speed limits around 35-40.

5)Biggest tip is to practice. Find a parking lot and practice. For things to avoid is to not sit at a light in gear with your foot on the clutch, it's bad for the throwout bearings (thing that pushes the clutch plate off the flywheel when you're pressing the clutch). Don't rest your foot on the clutch when you aren't using it, that's what the deadpedal is for (carpeted area directly to the left of the clutch).

 

[Engineer1384]

1)Starting in a manual is the hardest part of driving one, once you get that the rest comes with just driving the car. When someone mentions the "bite point" of the clutch, they mean the point when you're letting off the pedal and it starts to engage on the flywheel. In a flat area, flat so you don't roll, try slowly, slowly, slowly releasing the clutch until you feel the car begin to pull forward; that is the bite point. Your leg will build up a muscle memory of that point where the clutch grabs, and this is the point when you want to start easing into the throttle.

The clutch pedal should be treated like the opposite of the throttle. You don't just hammer the gas pedal when you're starting off (maybe you do, but you know what I mean), you slowly ease into it. The same with the clutch, just the opposite. You slowly ease your way off the clutch until you reach the point of engagement and you slowly ease into the gas while still slowly releasing the clutch.

2)It's the car, not you. The 1-2 shift in this car is almost never smooth unless you feather the clutch when letting off. It's a combination of the heavy dual mass flywheel and Ford attempting to reduce emissions by letting the RPMs hang for a moment when you push in the clutch. What's going on with the jerkiness is that transmission gearing allows for a certain engine RPM for a particular vehicle speed. So when the RPMs are higher (rev hang I mentioned) than what they should be for that particular gear and vehicle speed, the car will jerk forward until the engine RPMs match the vehicle speed. Normal every day driving doesn't require lightning fast shifts, smooth and deliberate is what you're after. As for what to do when letting the RPMs fall, just leave the clutch pedal pressed on the floor, you won't hurt anything leaving it there for a second or two while shifting. And don't blip the throttle after shifting, it'll exacerbate the jerkiness you feel (related to what I wrote about earlier).

3)Downshifting takes as much practice as starting, but isn't as hard to learn. What you need to look for is the speed you're taking the turn at and that will let you know what gear you should be in. That'll come with time and just learning how the car operates. I know which gear to be in just by how fast I think I'm going (I don't actually look at the speedometer). A tip for "smoothness," if you're turning between 10-15 mph 2nd gear is fine, 20+ 3rd is better suited. As for the jerkiness when downshifting, it again relates to engine RPMs and vehicle speed. Avoid/prevent it by feathering out the clutch instead of just dumping it. Dumping it means just taking your foot clean off the pedal without slowly releasing it.

4)Yea the gearing is quite short on this transmission but 5th is well suited to back roads with speed limits around 35-40.

5)Biggest tip is to practice. Find a parking lot and practice. For things to avoid is to not sit at a light in gear with your foot on the clutch, it's bad for the throwout bearings (thing that pushes the clutch plate off the flywheel when you're pressing the clutch). Don't rest your foot on the clutch when you aren't using it, that's what the deadpedal is for (carpeted area directly to the left of the clutch).

Thanks.

For #2 should I not hit the gas until the clutch is all the way up or starting using gas at the bite point when going 1-2. Again for maximum smoothness I realize I should let the clutch up slowly.

 

[15performanceblue]

Hey everyone. I'm new here and glad to join, hopefully I can stay :-/ I had a 2011 Fiesta and loved it in auto. Never drove manual and wanted to treat myself with a better car so I got the 2016 Fiesta ST. It's a great car and looks wonderful. However, my first time ever manual was at the dealer giving me a lesson. Everyone told me to go for it, you'll learn in no time. Now 5 days later, 250 miles driven on highway and city, and a few hours practicing in an empty lot and I'm feeling a real regret for my purchase. Maybe I'll never get it? I'm here seeking advice SPECIFIC to the ST. Please keep in mind I never once drove manual so take it easy on me.

The issue is I look online and see so much conflicting information. "Slam the gas hard and let off the clutch fast". "Let off the clutch slow", "Find the bite point (I don't even know what the hell that is!"

I'm driving with no AC on and no music, trying to watch the tach and learn to the sounds but really struggling the following areas. Again my issue isn't that I don't want to practice. I don't know WHAT to practice. Everyone I ask or read online seems to change. I'm trying to learn how to make the driving experience smooth at first. I'm assuming after that I can have a little more fun accelerating.

As of now I stall out about 1/5 stops I come to, the others I either squeel the tires or the car jerks. I've shifted from 3rd to 2nd when trying to go to 4th a few times and that scared the shit out of me! Anytime I downshift then hit the gas again the car jerks.

Main Issues:

1) Going from stop in first. Again I don't even know how fast or slow to pull the clutch up. Can someone explain? I don't know what "Bite the clutch" means, I don't feel anything. I usually try to go slow as I slowly go on gas but it squeels the tires... better than stalling I guess.

2) 1-2nd gear. This is NEVER smooth. It jerks like crazy. Someone told me to let the revs drop, so if I shift from 1st at 3500 to let them drop to where they will be in 2nd. How the hell should I know where they will be? Also while letting them drop do I keep the all the way to the floor? Do I shift fast and let off clutch shift slow? - Someone told me to always hit the gas as I let off the clutch so I been doing that.

3) Downshifting for turns. Often I'll go into a turn and slow down to 1st or 2nd gear. As soon as I let off the clutch and hit the gas the car jerks. Anyway to prevent this?

4) What the hell is 5th gear for? Just generally speaking. Even as an engineer I'm confused... Anytime I'm in 4th I'm already going like 40 mph so it makes more sense to go to 6th gear. Is 5th just for highway passing?

5) Any other general tips or things to avoid?

Maybe in my 30s I missed the boat, I don't know. The few times it shifted well I had lot of fun getting up to highway speed. But after nearly being rear ended by an angry old man, and having about a dozen people flipping me off or cursing at me when I stall at light or jerk forward you can imagine how I'm a little less eager to drive anywhere now.

Thanks for any help :-/

Edit: Also I want to learn the PROPER way not the fast way or the shortcut. The reason is I've driven with people who drove manual for years who still had the car jerk at times. I don't want to ease into a shortcut and be a crummy driver. I'm sure it's possible to have fun and shift smoothly so I'm all ears. Be my Yoda please.

Where in MI are you? I live in St. Clair Shores and I am more than willing to meet up and give you some lessons if you are up for it.

 

[jmrtsus]

Just go out and drive! You will eventually get a feel for it and be overjoyed with the control and actually driving a car as opposed to one foot and steer. You will learn, we all did, so can you. Just GO DRIVE, by yourself with no added pressure of "help"!

As to why 5th and 6th the answer is that with the drive gear so low for acceleration performance a 5 speed would have the engine RPM's too high for decent gas milage without a 6 gear. I find myself wanting a 7th gear for cruising on the interstate!

 

[Manta Ray]

i watch a lot of touge racing videos that showed their footwork, and yeah, i just knew. lol

on a more serious note, i have this very different method of teaching the catch point, and i have found it very very effective for people that have very low control of their leg movements...

1. find a really good friend that has about 1-2 hours of free time.
2. find empty parking lot
3. instruct your friend to be your eyes
4. clutch in, go in first gear
5. close your eyes (this is why you need a friend)
6. feel for the "light push/tug" as you slowly release the clutch
7. once you feel that motion, clutch back in... and repeat until you are certain you can do it in your sleep (i never had someone that needed more than 15 minutes of this).

You must trust your friend to tell you how much you have traveled in the lot, or if something/someone is approaching your car. you cant see so... yeah. Your car is moving forward ever so slightly each time you release the clutch.

each time you feel more confident you know where the "contact point" is located in the range of clutching motion... get there faster and faster until you stall because... well your leg needs to train muscle memory, and going over is stalling.

proceed with your new found catch point finding prowess to driving easy.

or you can be like me... watch youtube videos of touge races and pretend to drive in my computer chair, get in friends car, drive as imagined. ??? profit?

 

[Joker328]

There is some good advice in this thread, but do you not know anyone else who drives a manual who could teach you in the car and give you feedback on what you are doing? I had a hard enough time learning and I had someone teaching me. Doing it along must be tough. I'm also glad I learned in a shitty old Ford Contour and not my FiST.

Anyhow, all I can add to what has already been said is to check out some YouTube videos on how a manual transmission and clutch work. Probably doesn't help everyone, but for someone like me who needs to picture what is going on, it really helped it click in my mind to know how my inputs were translating to the transmission.