New Manual Driver - Incredibly frustrated and feeling regret after 5 days. Any help?

[Manta Ray]

also.. dont get mad. this is the quickest way to fail learning, because you forget everything you did well and remember all the stalling and jerking that got you so mad.

if you manage to get to NYC would not hesitate to give you some more advice.

 

[TheStig]

Don't give up man. I started driving a manual when I was 14 as my mom taught me some. I didn't drive a manual again until I was 16 and got my own car. It was a crash course to say the least. I had to drive the car 60 miles home on very limited experience. It was a 5 speed Honda Civic and I didn't know I was supposed to be in "high gear" so I literally drove it 70mph in 4th gear for 30 minutes.

It took hundreds of hours and thousands of miles of practice to get to where I am now feeling like I could drive any manual transmission vehicle out there. That is a beyond rewarding feeling to say the least. Just know we all had issues to start with but perhaps were in much more forgiving cars. The Fiesta is a very forgiving car but it still is a turbocharged little speedster, compared to beginning in a sub 100hp Honda or VW Bug.

Hell I taught my ex to drive one in a parking lot in an hour, to the point I almost let her drive on the street. But my insurance doesn't cover that and I like my car too much lol.

Keep on driving, it all starts to become second nature. Don't give up and take every opportunity to learn more.

 

[Hijinx]

Thanks for the help!

Do you think you could quantify how far up the clutch goes till it bites. Like %? Also same thing how slow is slow... Like a couple seconds? And how far should I push the gas down? Like halfway or less?

Don't press the gas at all... If I had to quantify it, I'd say one half inch per second. To give a rough percentage as to where it will be when it begins to engage...id say about 60%, with 100% being foot off completely. It's really hard to quantify that because every car is slightly different.

Again, for the purpose of this exercise, NO GAS FOR YOU.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[Hijinx]

If you really want to learn, go set your parking brake and stall the car intentionally a couple times... It'll help you get over that fear.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[Manta Ray]

A little off topic, what concentration engineering are you in? Student? Working individual? What type of degree (bs, bt, ba, masters, etc)? I think knowing this can help me answer some questions more tailored to your expertise. But if it's too personal you can PM me? Or ignore this all together lol.

 

[Flaco]

Welcome and ditto to all the good advice the other guys have given you. Practice makes perfect !

 

[TFRacer]

Best advice I ever got was to just be smooth with the petals. No slamming or suddenly letting off, it should all be smooth motion.

 

[Hijinx]

A little off topic, what concentration engineering are you in? Student? Working individual? What type of degree (bs, bt, ba, masters, etc)? I think knowing this can help me answer some questions more tailored to your expertise. But if it's too personal you can PM me? Or ignore this all together lol.

I actually thought about bringing this up... I'd assume, in ignorance, that an engineer outside of electrical would do really well if they did a little research on how clutches and transmissions work. I'm not an engineer, obviously, (I'm satellite and radio communications maintenance, although I am pretty mechanically inclined) but watching videos and studying up helped me immensely when I understood the mechanics better.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[jahaziel]

We're on the same boat buddy practice and each day will get better some day you go back to square one for some reason but just keep practicing I'm 3 weeks out and still learning but it beautiful ones you get it look on YouTube on clutch control that helped me

 

[Zormecteon]

All good advice so far. CLICK AND CLACK, the tappet brothers from NPR recommend teaching someone to use a clutch by getting the car to move in 1st gear without using the gas pedal. .. as everyone has stated so far this is a learned point and different for each car. .. ..

Don't try to put the car into first gear when rolling. .. you won't be smooth... only use 1st from a dead stop. ...

This car has "shift assist" If you are driving in any gear and push in the clutch, and let off the gas, the engine rpms will fall and there will be slight hesitation at the proper point to release the clutch in the next higher gear.

when downshifting, if you push in the clutch, and rev the engine, and at the same time put light pressure on the shifter in the next lower gear, you will feel a point where the shifter will want to slide easily. .. that's also the proper point to release the clutch for a smooth downshift. .. that is true for all syncromesh transmissions.

as everyone else has stated.. .practice. .

don't be afraid to use hill assist for a year or so, but after you get shifting down, learn to not rely on it.

and oh yes,, practice.

 

[Hijinx]

All good advice so far. CLICK AND CLACK, the tappet brothers from NPR recommend teaching someone to use a clutch by getting the car to move in 1st gear without using the gas pedal. .. as everyone has stated so far this is a learned point and different for each car. .. ..

Don't try to put the car into first gear when rolling. .. you won't be smooth... only use 1st from a dead stop. ...

This car has "shift assist" If you are driving in any gear and push in the clutch, and let off the gas, the engine rpms will fall and there will be slight hesitation at the proper point to release the clutch in the next higher gear.

when downshifting, if you push in the clutch, and rev the engine, and at the same time put light pressure on the shifter in the next lower gear, you will feel a point where the shifter will want to slide easily. .. that's also the proper point to release the clutch for a smooth downshift. .. that is true for all syncromesh transmissions.

as everyone else has stated.. .practice. .

don't be afraid to use hill assist for a year or so, but after you get shifting down, learn to not rely on it.

and oh yes,, practice.

Another great point here! Do not become reliant on the hill assist feature! It's a crutch feature. It'll hamper your acquired skills of you're not constantly honing them. I learned to drive stick at 14 on a early 1980s Hyundai Accent... It had roll up windows lol. I'm on the downhill of 29 now, and I've made it a habit for practice to be a part of my normal driving. At some point in my daily commute, road trip, errand running, drive to go out, or just to drive, I'm practicing my skills.

The point is that one day, OP, you'll drive away from a light or you'll be carrying a conversation but you'll know what gear you're in and it'll hit you..."holy shit, this is second nature now."

Just hang in there. You can def PM me if you want a video demonstration or have any questions. I don't have my car at the moment, but I've got at least one video on my phone I could send.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[parapraxis24]

Don't give up man. I started driving a manual when I was 14 as my mom taught me some. I didn't drive a manual again until I was 16 and got my own car. It was a crash course to say the least. I had to drive the car 60 miles home on very limited experience. It was a 5 speed Honda Civic and I didn't know I was supposed to be in "high gear" so I literally drove it 70mph in 4th gear for 30 minutes.

It took hundreds of hours and thousands of miles of practice to get to where I am now feeling like I could drive any manual transmission vehicle out there. That is a beyond rewarding feeling to say the least. Just know we all had issues to start with but perhaps were in much more forgiving cars. The Fiesta is a very forgiving car but it still is a turbocharged little speedster, compared to beginning in a sub 100hp Honda or VW Bug.

Hell I taught my ex to drive one in a parking lot in an hour, to the point I almost let her drive on the street. But my insurance doesn't cover that and I like my car too much lol.

Keep on driving, it all starts to become second nature. Don't give up and take every opportunity to learn more.

I learned when I was 15-16 on a friends 2G Eclipse GS, but didn't really drive one until I bought my Passat at 18. I had to drive that home 30 miles after not having driven a manual in quite a long time. After a few months it was easy as pie.

I'll also add that I owned that Passat for 10 years before I got my FiST, and still stalled quite a few times the first few weeks of ownership. It was hard to change the built up muscle memory of a decade of driving.

Point is, OP, don't give up we've all been there at some point in our lives.

 

[Hijinx]

Oh crap! You're in Detroit?! I know at least two guys, one that may have time to help you personally. I'm not volunteering their help, because that would not be cool. [MENTION=1862]15pbfist[/MENTION] can you help a FiST brother out? Maybe tell him about DHM, and get him indoctrinated lol.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I think everyone should take their license test in a manual transmission vehicle. It's good to know how in case you need to do it in special situations. Anyone can drive a automatic...if you can't drive one of those you shouldn't be driving. Go to an empty lot with no lights poles .....just wide open and practice starting and stopping over and over. It comes with time.....as with everything. Good luck and don't give up. Enjoy it....I drive both and automatic and manual and wish my other vehicle was a manual.hehe...good luck!

 

[Manta Ray]

Another great point here! Do not become reliant on the hill assist feature! It's a crutch feature. It'll hamper your acquired skills of you're not constantly honing them. I learned to drive stick at 14 on a early 1980s Hyundai Accent... It had roll up windows lol. I'm on the downhill of 29 now, and I've made it a habit for practice to be a part of my normal driving. At some point in my daily commute, road trip, errand running, drive to go out, or just to drive, I'm practicing my skills.

The point is that one day, OP, you'll drive away from a light or you'll be carrying a conversation but you'll know what gear you're in and it'll hit you..."holy shit, this is second nature now."

Just hang in there. You can def PM me if you want a video demonstration or have any questions. I don't have my car at the moment, but I've got at least one video on my phone I could send.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

You have no idea how much hill assist messed me up when I first experienced it in my friends STI. Is there any way I can shut that crap off in the FIST?

 

[Hijinx]

You have no idea how much hill assist messed me up when I first experienced it in my friends STI. Is there any way I can shut that crap off in the FIST?

Theres a workaround, and there's a way to turn it off. The workaround is to take your foot off the brake before you press in the clutch. The way to actually turn it off is in your entertainment thing (I can't think of the word right now). Scroll through the menus and it's in there somewhere, unless it's unavailable to change on a Nav less car.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[Sil3nt611]

I'm late to the game, but like others have said, the first thing to master is a start from a stop on a flat surface. Once you get that down you've got the basic idea on how to move onto another gear which is much easier.

It came somewhat easy to me because I grew up with parents that both drove manuals (until my mom had to sell her 5.0 Mustang for a Mercury Sable for 4 doors). First vehicle I ever drove was a manual Ford Ranger. My dad was out in the pasture with me and my brother working on something (I was 10) and when we needed more water my dad did the sensible thing and decided to have me drive back to the house alone instead of going back himself. haha. He gave me a crash course of starting from a stop and then I just stayed in 1st all the way home and back. I practiced some more as I got older, but I decided I didn't want to drive stick and resigned myself to automatic. Bought one automatic car and drive it for two years, then another and got the mod bug and hung around internet forums too long and decided I needed to do a manual swap. So I did. And then I spent about 2 weeks learning how to drive my car again and then took the longest road trip I've taken so far from San Antonio, TX to Columbus, OH.

I currently have 6 years experience driving stick and I definitely have the natural feel for it, but I still stall it now and again.

I learned that the best way to actually learn ANYTHING is to get your hands on it and use it/work with it/break it/fix it. There were things I was taught in college that I didn't learn squat about because I never got to work with it. Got a lecture on it and took a test. That's not how you learn. The most useful stuff I ever learned about computers (what I went to college for) I learned from getting my hands on the stuff, taking it apart, fixing it. The same thing goes with learning how to drive a manual. It's great to read about it and watch videos for pointers, but even with all those pointers, you WILL stall the car. Until you learn how to not stall the car from your own personal hands on experience.

The best way to learn is in an empty part of a parking lot with no pressure to get out of anyone's way. Then you can just practice what people have been saying. With no pressure you can screw up and not have to worry about it. Just turn the car back on and keep trying. I got really lucky when learning how to do hill starts and managed to get it pretty well down before I ended up with someone behind me on a hill one day. It's really not better to just get the car going by any means if it means launching the car and spinning the tires because if you learn that that will definitely get you going without learning where the stall point actually is then you'll always try and launch your car and that's not real good on the car. That's why the no pressure situation to learn is so important. The best way to learn is to just keep trying no matter how many times you fail. You will get better, but you have to have the right attitude for it. If you tell yourself you can't do it, you will never do it. Instead of getting mad at the failures, take joy in the successes. Before you know it there will be more successful attempts than failed ones. And it's all in the feel, not the RPM, speed, or percentage of the pedal you let off. I hear people say shift at 3000 rpm all the time when teaching people how to drive stick. There's no hard and fast rule, that's just a basic guideline. The beauty of the manual transmission is that you can shift when you want. Every car is different. I don't even know when I shift on the RPM range for daily driving because I don't watch the tach, but it's higher than the shift light.

Also as has been said as well, don't shift into 1st until you're at a dead stop. 1st gear is so short that you can literally start the car from a stop in second. Not that you should, but if you're rolling even really slowly, leave it in second. Turns are a bit more tricky. Depends what speed you're going. I still miscalculate that sometimes.

As for those who say don't leave your foot on the clutch while at a stop because of throwout bearing wear and tear...the way I understand it is the pilot bearing is running with the pedal disengaged anyway so you're wearing one or the other. The throwout is the beefier of the two. The best argument for not holding the clutch pedal at a stop is that sometimes you may not be aware but you might not have the pedal pushed down as far as it should be and you might be slightly wearing the clutch. I prefer to be ready to go so I hold the clutch at a stop. If something is headed towards me ready to crash I don't want to be in neutral if there was a way to drive out of it. I've had enough close calls with different things that I don't want to be caught not on the defense. I drove like that in my old car for 5 years and something around 60k miles on the bearings I put in with the new clutch and transmission swap until I sold it.

Here's a girl that just bought her ST that I followed for a bit awhile back. She was still learning but she was trying.
[video]https://youtu.be/P2hXCv04LjE[/video]

 

[Atomic17]

Everyone is giving great advice! Here's my 2 cents:

BREATHE. This is not the end of the world, you WILL get this in time, don't rush it, and BREATHE.

Don't try and get too technical with the engineering part of it, let the clutch and gas become extensions of your feet. Empty parking lot, use just the clutch and practice feeling the bite point, then once you have that, then try working in the gas. You will get this, don't doubt yourself!

I used to live out in the Detroit area, if I was still there I would be happy to teach you. This forum is by far one of the best out there, I'm sure someone locally will contact you for a meet up and training session!

Oh yeah, BREATHE.

 

[Old Guy]

Try moving the seat position to see if you get better clutch control. When the clutch is fully disengaged there still should be a bend in your knee.

 

[Superfly Snook]

I will just add sympathy here - I learned as a teenager but still have a vivid memory of my Dad hollering at me to "tease the clutch" while I lurched and stalled his VW Beetle all over the parking lot by his office. And that was 30 years ago! A good friend of mine about ten years ago decided to buy a manual BMW M3 without ever having driven a stick and boy did it take him a while to get the hang of it! I really felt for him.

It'll get better - I'll go lay down some rubber for you in a show of solidarity today.