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Piercemotorsports Fiesta ST Rear Torsion Bar!

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Thread Starter #41
it uses the Street Torsion---only the race package comes with the Race Torsion, but you can certainly request it in the notes section at check out or PM me here-thanks!!
 


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Thread Starter #43
Yes-the material has arrived and we've cut enough for the first batch of a 100 or so. The machinist called me a few times with questions about the threaded inserts so I know he's working on them. We're waiting on the final machined part and then we're ready to start welding---I'll post some pics next week!
 


airjor13

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#44
Yes-the material has arrived and we've cut enough for the first batch of a 100 or so. The machinist called me a few times with questions about the threaded inserts so I know he's working on them. We're waiting on the final machined part and then we're ready to start welding---I'll post some pics next week!
Sweet! [rockon]
 


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#45
Yes-the material has arrived and we've cut enough for the first batch of a 100 or so. The machinist called me a few times with questions about the threaded inserts so I know he's working on them. We're waiting on the final machined part and then we're ready to start welding---I'll post some pics next week!
Thanks for the update!
 


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#48
I know you guys will love it.

Mine (the prototype) has been out of my car for a week.
So that Jim can build jigs for production.

I miss it and want it back.




Dave
How does the street and race version compare with the TB torsion bar you had?
 


D1JL

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#50
How does the street and race version compare with the TB torsion bar you had?
That would be a difficult question for me to answer.
Although I have most of the TB products on my car, the rear torsion is not one of them.
However, I did have one that was VERY similar.

I now have had four different rear torsion stiffener bars on my car all worked well just some better than others.
Please don't misunderstand, TB and others make fine products and vendor variety is always good for the consumer.
I am NOT saying that any of these other products do NOT work.
I can only provide the thoughts as to why the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar was designed the way it is and yes, why I think it a better product


The only way for this bar to work correctly over a long period of time is that must be locked to two points on each end.
The purpose of this bar is to resist the twisting action of the "Twist Beam".
By attaching (bolting) to only one point on each end defeats this purpose.

Although when first installed, the one bolt per end mounting type will work and perform well.
Over time or extreme use it may fail because the mounting bolt can ware or the hole can eventually elongate.
So now the torsion bar may move within the twist beam providing little or no resistance as it was designed to do, it can also start to rattle.

The next type uses a cross bolt, so now it is attached at two points at each end.
This is a great design and it works extremely well.
The drawback here is in the installation process.
You must lineup and drill additional holes to put in the cross bolts.
This is not an easy task due to the hardening of the twist beam.

Another design used cross braces but they were held in place by "U" bolts clamped around the twist beam.
This not only looked ugly but also squeaked.

BTW, all of the above were made of mild steal.

Now we come to the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar.
The BEST of all to designs combined.
The cross brace design, for proper rigidity but with no additional drilling for ease of installation.
No use of "U" bolts or clamps but the use of Delrin bushings to prevent rattles or squeaks.
Made from chrome molly steal to provide strength and save weight.
Also available in two stiffness versions.

I think if you look at all the factors you too will find that the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar is the better choice.



Dave
 


airjor13

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#51
That would be a difficult question for me to answer.
Although I have most of the TB products on my car, the rear torsion is not one of them.
However, I did have one that was VERY similar.

I now have had four different rear torsion stiffener bars on my car all worked well just some better than others.
Please don't misunderstand, TB and others make fine products and vendor variety is always good for the consumer.
I am NOT saying that any of these other products do NOT work.
I can only provide the thoughts as to why the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar was designed the way it is and yes, why I think it a better product


The only way for this bar to work correctly over a long period of time is that must be locked to two points on each end.
The purpose of this bar is to resist the twisting action of the "Twist Beam".
By attaching (bolting) to only one point on each end defeats this purpose.

Although when first installed, the one bolt per end mounting type will work and perform well.
Over time or extreme use it may fail because the mounting bolt can ware or the hole can eventually elongate.
So now the torsion bar may move within the twist beam providing little or no resistance as it was designed to do, it can also start to rattle.

The next type uses a cross bolt, so now it is attached at two points at each end.
This is a great design and it works extremely well.
The drawback here is in the installation process.
You must lineup and drill additional holes to put in the cross bolts.
This is not an easy task due to the hardening of the twist beam.

Another design used cross braces but they were held in place by "U" bolts clamped around the twist beam.
This not only looked ugly but also squeaked.

BTW, all of the above were made of mild steal.

Now we come to the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar.
The BEST of all to designs combined.
The cross brace design, for proper rigidity but with no additional drilling for ease of installation.
No use of "U" bolts or clamps but the use of Delrin bushings to prevent rattles or squeaks.
Made from chrome molly steal to provide strength and save weight.
Also available in two stiffness versions.

I think if you look at all the factors you too will find that the Pierce Rear Torsion Bar is the better choice.

Dave
Agreed, I was almost set on the TB bar until I saw the PM bar, vastly superior design and construction at a reasonable price
 


Kip2MyLou

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#52
Same here. Can't wait for front strut bar and torsion bar. Don't mind waiting for a quality product. Love his 2 pt brace.
 


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#53
I'd really like to hear more feedback on the experienced differences between the street and race bar. Once I added the front 2-point bar, I noticed understeer. Even with TB's Trunk and Torsion bars in the rear, there is still a bit more understeer that what I am comfortable with.

I am leaning towards Pierce's Race Torsion bar to elevate the stiffness of my rear and finally dial out the remainder of the understeer. I would be very curious to hear drivability feedback on TB's torsion insert compared to each of Pierce's torsion inserts.
 


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Thread Starter #54
I'd really like to hear more feedback on the experienced differences between the street and race bar. Once I added the front 2-point bar, I noticed understeer. Even with TB's Trunk and Torsion bars in the rear, there is still a bit more understeer that what I am comfortable with.

I am leaning towards Pierce's Race Torsion bar to elevate the stiffness of my rear and finally dial out the remainder of the understeer. I would be very curious to hear drivability feedback on TB's torsion insert compared to each of Pierce's torsion inserts.
Hey there-just to clarify so folks don't get confused---the front lower 2 point brace (and the upper front strut brace) wouldn't create understeer (or over steer) don't have any effect on roll couple/balance---things like a spring rate change, an anti-roll bar rate change and finally a dampner valving increase/decrease will have an effect on those dynamics...Tire pressure/compound as well will effect balance and folks will actually tune balance with all of the above at the track/autoX.
 


Kip2MyLou

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#55
Hey there-just to clarify so folks don't get confused---the front lower 2 point brace (and the upper front strut brace) wouldn't create understeer (or over steer) don't have any effect on roll couple/balance---things like a spring rate change, an anti-roll bar rate change and finally a dampner valving increase/decrease will have an effect on those dynamics...Tire pressure/compound as well will effect balance and folks will actually tune balance with all of the above at the track/autoX.
Quick question, what would be the best thing to get rid of the little body roll this car has? Other than springs or coils. I really can't go that route with my daily commute. So looking for other options. Thanks!
 


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#58
Hey there-just to clarify so folks don't get confused---the front lower 2 point brace (and the upper front strut brace) wouldn't create understeer (or over steer) don't have any effect on roll couple/balance---things like a spring rate change, an anti-roll bar rate change and finally a dampner valving increase/decrease will have an effect on those dynamics...Tire pressure/compound as well will effect balance and folks will actually tune balance with all of the above at the track/autoX.
I appreciate your response.

My observation is simply there was understeer introduced with the 2 point front brace. It's still there a bit with the trunk brace and TB's torsion bar.

What I'd like to know from someone with experience (perhaps once your torsion bars ship out if they haven't already) is how do each one of your torsion bars (street/race) compare to the TB bar.
 


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Thread Starter #59
I appreciate your response.

My observation is simply there was understeer introduced with the 2 point front brace. It's still there a bit with the trunk brace and TB's torsion bar.

What I'd like to know from someone with experience (perhaps once your torsion bars ship out if they haven't already) is how do each one of your torsion bars (street/race) compare to the TB bar.
Thanks! I believe they're will be a few people switching to the new bar and also several who have ordered both street/race versions which would be some very cool/interesting feedback. I commented above to let folks know that the 2 point brace doesn't generally produce any understeer (not it's intention) based on our testing with the Fiesta ST or any other FWD platform that we supply parts for. In other words I didn't want folks thinking if they bought a 2 point it would add or reduce understeer as we haven't experienced that in our testing on the track/skidpad...
 


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