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Plated LSD? Anybody with experience with them, I have a Quaife but as always, a mod addict.....

RAAMaudio

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#1
I have 3 blocks use on the Quaife, 294 miles on the car, I am seriously interested if finding out what I can about the Plated since I have had many great diffs including the OS Giken, considered by some to be the best there is but never even heard much about Plated.

I like that it can be custom ramped.

If I find out some good info and deem it a mod I want to do I will post up a swap, local install, etc thread...

Thanks:)
Rick
 


iso100

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#3
A plated diff will lock even when one wheel isn't loaded... like if it's in the air.

A torsen (like the quaife) is not an LSD but rather a torque Biasing differential. It automatically transfers power to the wheel with grip but needs resistance on the other. If it's up in the air you have an open differential.

For road racing and autocrossing the torsen is the way to go IMO.
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #4
The Quaife seems to work very well with the electronics on this car, probably why the RS will have one. My main concern with the Quaife and why I waited a bit to get one was I tend to jump the curbs which results in a front wheel off the ground and I did not want it to unlock but with the system in the car it is supposed to keep the wheel from spinning by a bit of break pressure, much less than without the LSD as without it there can be serious brake overheating. When it seemed nothing else was going to be available I went with the Quaife and I am sure it will be very very good.

I hade a gear vendors, similar operation, in the back of a 2wd Tacoma and never had any issues getting all the grip I needed including flying up and down twisty dirt and gravel roads, much fun.

I have had various clutch type diffs and the best was the OSG but a well setup ramped diff can work very very well as is quite popular in BMW racing.

Though I do not know all the details it seems the Plated which can be setup with different lock ratios and possibly ramp angles could be really dialed in to work incredibly well but it might also work better in some situations than others and simply may not be the best in this car for at least some situations but that is purely speculation with no merit other than I just do not know much about them.

If it was the best way to go I would not mind swapping for somebodies mint LSD less transaxle, for a fee of course, even do the swaps here....I have much more research to do.

I will let you know Razorlab, most likely I will keep it unless very strong compelling reasons to go to all that work when mine is done and has 294 miles on the car and about 3 blocks on the Quaife:)
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #5
I was under the impression Plated was a brand name not a type of diff, we used clutch or disk type here, mostly, in the US. I have a ton of stuff I am doing and sometimes a bit brain dead, misread something, etc....then figure it out later......

OK, they claim it is the strongest, etc......8 active surfaces, which means 4 disk to me but of course I stand to be corrected, 4 Porsche organic clutch disks and 4 steel plates is what I had done to a BMW unit recently. Ramped is a great thing so getting an LSD with good disks, ramped, etc can be a very very good way to go as mentioned lots of BMWs run that way but they cost to have a rebuild ramped, polished gears with used parts for some of it can be $3-4k for a complete diff.

So this looks like a very nice ramped, clutch type LSD, it might be made better than others but the OS Giken 20 disk units which are known to be VERY FAST and easy to drive are still probably the best, why I had my last BMW diff built with one but then again is is an $1800 LSD or more just for the unit and the lube is super expensive but lasts a season if not overheated to much so a cooler or at least a finned cover($600 for that) is used or both.

I will test the Quaife with some pretty decent power, full suspension mods, brakes, 225 DOT race tires, and going all out then see if I feel I need to change and the 3J looks very promising.

Thanks for listening and posting:)
Rick
 


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aspen
#6
The Quaife seems to work very well with the electronics on this car, probably why the RS will have one. My main concern with the Quaife and why I waited a bit to get one was I tend to jump the curbs which results in a front wheel off the ground and I did not want it to unlock but with the system in the car it is supposed to keep the wheel from spinning by a bit of break pressure, much less than without the LSD as without it there can be serious brake overheating. When it seemed nothing else was going to be available I went with the Quaife and I am sure it will be very very good.

I hade a gear vendors, similar operation, in the back of a 2wd Tacoma and never had any issues getting all the grip I needed including flying up and down twisty dirt and gravel roads, much fun.

I have had various clutch type diffs and the best was the OSG but a well setup ramped diff can work very very well as is quite popular in BMW racing.

Though I do not know all the details it seems the Plated which can be setup with different lock ratios and possibly ramp angles could be really dialed in to work incredibly well but it might also work better in some situations than others and simply may not be the best in this car for at least some situations but that is purely speculation with no merit other than I just do not know much about them.

If it was the best way to go I would not mind swapping for somebodies mint LSD less transaxle, for a fee of course, even do the swaps here....I have much more research to do.

I will let you know Razorlab, most likely I will keep it unless very strong compelling reasons to go to all that work when mine is done and has 294 miles on the car and about 3 blocks on the Quaife:)
will we see the RS in the usa (assuming its built at all)? a search indicates this car would cost around 38k us dollars. make it awd and drop in the 2.3 ecoboost and the price is worth it, but simply up the hp, add lsd and a better suspension and it wont sell..

time will tell if it even makes it to market anywhere.
 


dyn085

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#7
will we see the RS in the usa (assuming its built at all)? a search indicates this car would cost around 38k us dollars. make it awd and drop in the 2.3 ecoboost and the price is worth it, but simply up the hp, add lsd and a better suspension and it wont sell..

time will tell if it even makes it to market anywhere.
I think the only RS we may see will be the Focus RS. It is rumored to be awd, 2.3L, and ~330 hp. I can't imagine Americans buying a $38k Fiesta, but I don't know where you got those numbers.
 


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I think the only RS we may see will be the Focus RS. It is rumored to be awd, 2.3L, and ~330 hp. I can't imagine Americans buying a $38k Fiesta, but I don't know where you got those numbers.
i googled for fiesta st rs i got that number which was a translation from british pounds. apparently most discussions about this car are in europe. i know that it would be cheaper in the us if produced but that price really caught my eye.

most comments about this car indicate recaro racing seats, upgraded suspension, lsd, lightened somehow, aero body package, 230 hp, 1.6 turbo motor. thats not enough to justify that kind of price jump in the us. i would like to see the lsd as an option. i would love awd and a bigger motor though.
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #9
It has taken some time for the very small performance car to catch on here with our wide open spaces people are used to big cars and big power, not tiny cars that performance is based on handling over mass and HP. Of course handling has grown immensely more popular here but making a big car handle works, to a certain point but look at the R&T test where in the Mountains the ST came in third place over much higher powered and far costlier machines. Not sure the exact quote but something along the lines "if you cannot drive the Fiesta ST fast you just cannot drive"

Having built dozens of cars for fun, 510 Datsuns, Miatas, Vettes, Subaru, Scion, BMW, and hundreds of thousands of miles of fun in all sorts of weather, all sorts of surfaces, etc....I much prefer a small car with decent power and superb handling over anything else and FWD is not needed to have fun, I find it to easy and less entertaining, the full sorted out Vettes to simply be to fast, the E36, Datsun and probably this project are my favorite all time cars, so far for real fun, none of which will or were highly powered and I have barely driven this car. I did build, no where near this level, the first 1ZZ Matrix turbo and made is a great SM autocross car that was still a very nice street car with 35MPG and the ST platform and stock setup is light years better so I have very high expectations from this car, so much so I think I have gone well beyond what I really needed to do but it has been my way for most of my cars so why not this one, my retirement car I will need to use for quite some time, make it the best I can)

This would be my minimalist mod list for the ST.
-Modded turbo or bigger one but with a great power band and not just more peak power.
-Bolt ons to support the turbo
-Coilovers or the right shock and spring setup
-Carefully research and decide on what sway bar setup but with the right springs stock may be all that is needed.
-More front brake mass with less weight as I track the car, more reliable, less maintenance and less overall operational cost.
-Shorter and more precise shifting
-Cooling as needed
-Lowest weight, fully optimized for function over style, wheel and tires to fit my needs
-LSD

Sell off the stock parts, not much money but it offsets things a bit, total above mods then could be done for around $7500
Buy a car with Recaro seats, no NAV, no Sunroof, no other extras as possible, make a deal on the right now, a barely used one, etc....$22000k or less for a new one.

Total could be $29,500 down to say $26,500 or even less, a bit more if get a bigger turbo, less if buy some used parts.......the bottom line is a very very capable car that would shock the owners of most "performance cars" on track, in the mountains, autocrossing, etc....and simply more fun, more of the time.

I see no real need for the RS unless it came in at a very attractive price and not sure I would even want AWD unless going to use it to rally.

Ford could offer it the way I would setup a car, call it the STX, etc, for less than $30k easily, ready to go, full warranties.
 


dyn085

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#10
i googled for fiesta st rs i got that number which was a translation from british pounds. apparently most discussions about this car are in europe. i know that it would be cheaper in the us if produced but that price really caught my eye.

most comments about this car indicate recaro racing seats, upgraded suspension, lsd, lightened somehow, aero body package, 230 hp, 1.6 turbo motor. thats not enough to justify that kind of price jump in the us. i would like to see the lsd as an option. i would love awd and a bigger motor though.
Here's an example taken from another forum that I'm an admin on. The conversation is in regards to the possible Focus RS, but it's a prime example of why we can't just mathematically assume that a model will be a certain cost-



I've read a few crap articles that said it would be $40k, and they did just what I quoted in my last post. They took the cost in the UK and did a conversion. (Which is stupid, as cars are FAR more expensive in the UK.) Let me drop some logic, again...


MK1 Focus ST170 price in the UK: ?15,995
MK1 Focus RS price in the UK: ?20,000
(The SVT Focus which is essentially the ST170 started at $17,995.)

So the MK1 RS base price was 25% higher than the base ST price.

MK2 Focus ST base price in the UK: ?20,850
MK2 Focus RS base price in the UK: ?24995

So the MK2 RS base price was 19% higher than the base ST price.

What some unintelligent/misinformed people will do is take the ?24995 and convert it to U.S. dollars. ($41701.66 as of today.) But this is a very STUPID calculation, and I'll show you why:

2013 Focus ST base prices in the UK: ?21,995

This converted to U.S. dollars is...

Wait for it...

$36696.46 in U.S. dollars.

But wait, you say the new Focus ST doesn't start at $36k and change here?

That's because cars are FAR more expensive in the UK (Are we learning?) Now let me get to a more realistic valuation of the next gen RS.

2013 Focus ST base prices in the U.S.: $24,495.

Option 1: Take this number and multiply it by 1.19 (based on the difference in price from a MK2 ST and MK2 RS in the UK.)

We get a base price for the RS of... $29,149.05

Think that's too conservative? I would possibly agree.

Option 2: Let's make the RS base price 38% more than the base ST price (Twice the price gap of the last generation and 13% more than the gap for the MK1 version.):

That's $24,495 * 1.38 = $33,803.10.

Arguing a $40k price for a base RS doesn't makes sense. That's a 63% increase over a base ST starting price.
I have a tough time seeing the FiST lasting much longer. I live in a military town and every 'hot' model is usually adopted well here and seen all over the place. There are a couple of FiST's that say for at least 3 months beyond when I purchased mine. By contrast, FoST's move really quickly and I see them everywhere.

I think Ford is using these models to test American interest and gauge sales possibilities, and I don't think that the FiST is going to be able to show numbers that support it's continued production. We all know that it is a small production run, but until Ford releases the final production/sales numbers we won't really know how well it did on comparison to the FoST which is probably one of its biggest competing models.

This is all strictly my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.
 




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