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Roll bar / Cage

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#21
If your going to weld it, why dont you just get their weld in full/half cage that comes pre cut? I'm getting ready to start cutting mine out that has been welded in. Definitely not looking forward to THAT. lol
Was going weld in because that's what I was going to have a shop do. But this seems like it might be a better option.
 


Woods247

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#22
Was going weld in because that's what I was going to have a shop do. But this seems like it might be a better option.
The weld in is A LOT more work. It'll give you the option to make adjustments if you want to though.
 


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#23
The weld in is A LOT more work. It'll give you the option to make adjustments if you want to though.
I wasn't going to weld it, was going to pay for someoneto custom build it. But my research shows that a properly installed autopower cage is functionally almost no different than a welded in half cage. Unless someone here says otherwise. I know it can be considered a bit controversial.
 


TemecFist

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#24
I wasn't going to weld it, was going to pay for someoneto custom build it. But my research shows that a properly installed autopower cage is functionally almost no different than a welded in half cage. Unless someone here says otherwise. I know it can be considered a bit controversial.
Just do what I did. Get the bolt in cage, then just weld it in to the frame rails. Easy peasy
 


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Iowa
#26
It is worth noting that the weight difference between DOM and Moly is pretty substantial. I am honestly surprised any pre-fab cages are affordable currently. The cost of materials is insane right now, moly especially.

I have seen some posts regarding the autopower cage and if they are still accurate the bolt through plates are a bit small for my liking.
 


Woods247

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#27
That’s why we weld bigger plates to the car then bolt through them. Autopower recommends this actually and provides the plates when asked.
 


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#29
I’m definitely in the minority here.

I’ve seen several Autopower cages that were either inadequate, ill-fitting, or needed additional modifications to improve safety.

Of course, I’m talking about full cages and not a rollbar. But it seems if your going through the trouble of welding and Autopower needs to send bigger plates, just go with a custom job. In the end, it’ll cost slightly more, but will have a much better fit, can be exactly as you/cage-builder designed it, and the quality will be much better than a mass-produced one.

I’m not here to get into a heated debate as I don’t think any of us have the technical knowledge to truly argue one way or another. I can only base my opinion on what I’ve seen at the track, what I’ve read from ppl that have either run or raced with them, and short discussions with race organizations’ lead safety techs.

All-in-all, it’s your car, your money, and I know a rollbar is significantly different that W2W racing with a full cage so it may suit your needs just fine for your intended purpose. Just adding my contrary two cents.
 


TemecFist

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#30
I’m definitely in the minority here.

I’ve seen several Autopower cages that were either inadequate, ill-fitting, or needed additional modifications to improve safety.

Of course, I’m talking about full cages and not a rollbar. But it seems if your going through the trouble of welding and Autopower needs to send bigger plates, just go with a custom job. In the end, it’ll cost slightly more, but will have a much better fit, can be exactly as you/cage-builder designed it, and the quality will be much better than a mass-produced one.

I’m not here to get into a heated debate as I don’t think any of us have the technical knowledge to truly argue one way or another. I can only base my opinion on what I’ve seen at the track, what I’ve read from ppl that have either run or raced with them, and short discussions with race organizations’ lead safety techs.

All-in-all, it’s your car, your money, and I know a rollbar is significantly different that W2W racing with a full cage so it may suit your needs just fine for your intended purpose. Just adding my contrary two cents.
The only problem with a custom cage/bar is that its not just "slightly" more, it's about 3x the cost. On top of that, you also need to look at the time involved and invested with a custom bar/cage. For someone to have a custom bar done, EVERYTHING would have to be removed from the car, full interior and all. Imagine someone inside of your car, with a welder, trying to not burn your headliner, your carpet, your interior panels, etc while they are trying to weld a cage with all of it's crazy angles. (If you do a proper cage, the windshield even comes out. Ask me how I know). So that right there is not only more time you have to invest prepping the car, but also increased downtime of your car due to it being torn apart. In the end, what is a "custom" bar going to give you that a bolt in wont (for a street car)?
 


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Woods247

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#31
I’m definitely in the minority here.

I’ve seen several Autopower cages that were either inadequate, ill-fitting, or needed additional modifications to improve safety.

Of course, I’m talking about full cages and not a rollbar. But it seems if your going through the trouble of welding and Autopower needs to send bigger plates, just go with a custom job. In the end, it’ll cost slightly more, but will have a much better fit, can be exactly as you/cage-builder designed it, and the quality will be much better than a mass-produced one.

I’m not here to get into a heated debate as I don’t think any of us have the technical knowledge to truly argue one way or another. I can only base my opinion on what I’ve seen at the track, what I’ve read from ppl that have either run or raced with them, and short discussions with race organizations’ lead safety techs.

All-in-all, it’s your car, your money, and I know a rollbar is significantly different that W2W racing with a full cage so it may suit your needs just fine for your intended purpose. Just adding my contrary two cents.
Ill fitting in Fiestas or another platform? What were the fitment issues? In what way was it inadequate? What modifications were required to increase safety?

Fitment in my Fiesta ST is perfect and the quality is outstanding. There is no room for improvement, which is why I use "perfect" to describe it. A few other Fiesta track guys I know say the same thing about theirs as have two local cage builders I'm friends with. I actually had a long time cage builder assist me with the installation and he stated he couldn't have made it any tighter and it would have cost 2X as much at least. I'm just a dick in the internet box so I don't particularly expect anyone to have knowledge of my experience with racecars or anything else. I can say that I 100% trust my life with the Autopower bar and highly recommend it to anyone that's looking for added safely for DE and TT. If your racing sanctions have specific requirements for a full cage, perhaps a custom cage is best. Autopower will build to whatever specs are needed, however. Caged cars typically have stripped interiors anyways and welding inside them is significantly easier. Welding in a car with an interior without damaging it is virtually impossible. I say this with first hand experience. Autopower bars are made to order in the US using US Steel (DOM or Moly). They aren't mass produced. I needed no additional modifications to improve safety of the Race bar I purchased. I've documented my bar with lots of pics on this forum if you are curious about Fiesta ST fitment.
 


TemecFist

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#32
Ill fitting in Fiestas or another platform? What were the fitment issues? In what way was it inadequate? What modifications were required to increase safety?

Fitment in my Fiesta ST is perfect and the quality is outstanding. There is no room for improvement, which is why I use "perfect" to describe it. A few other Fiesta track guys I know say the same thing about theirs as have two local cage builders I'm friends with. I actually had a long time cage builder assist me with the installation and he stated he couldn't have made it any tighter and it would have cost 2X as much at least. I'm just a dick in the internet box so I don't particularly expect anyone to have knowledge of my experience with racecars or anything else. I can say that I 100% trust my life with the Autopower bar and highly recommend it to anyone that's looking for added safely for DE and TT. If your racing sanctions have specific requirements for a full cage, perhaps a custom cage is best. Autopower will build to whatever specs are needed, however. Caged cars typically have stripped interiors anyways and welding inside them is significantly easier. Welding in a car with an interior without damaging it is virtually impossible. I say this with first hand experience. Autopower bars are made to order in the US using US Steel (DOM or Moly). They aren't mass produced. I needed no additional modifications to improve safety of the Race bar I purchased. I've documented my bar with lots of pics on this forum if you are curious about Fiesta ST fitment.
I agree with everything here 100%. For a FULL competition track car, get a customer cage, but for a street, A/X, HPDE car, you csnt beat the Autopower. Mine fit PERFECTLY as well.
 


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#33
The only problem with a custom cage/bar is that its not just "slightly" more, it's about 3x the cost.
That's not an apples to apples comparison. The Autopower will be about $600 for the their U-Weld "6 point front" cage and still needs to be welded in. The labor will still be required and it will end up being very close to the same cost, but will be custom fit and be Moly.

The original poster said he was quoted $3,000 for a six point, which is why I bring up that comparison. Yes the Moly custom one will cost probably $600-1,000 more. In my PERSONAL opinion, that is worth it. However each person has to make that decision on their own.

I do agree that if a bolt in cage will accomplish the goals it will be cheaper. However there are upsides to the custom/moly setup. Just a matter of if the upsides justify the cost to the individual.
 


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#34
Ill fitting in Fiestas or another platform? What were the fitment issues? In what way was it inadequate? What modifications were required to increase safety. .
Again, my experience is based on seeing them in race cars (not Fiestas) as full cages. They were not tucked in as much to the body (likely since they are made to fit in car with headliners intact), lacked footwell intrusion support, lacked gussets, and the door bars did not extend into the door itself. I wish I could show you pics of a Mustang with an Autopower cage vs the cage that was in my CMC car. Significant differences to say the least. Cost difference? I have no clue as I bought a completed race car...likely much more.


Your rollbar is obviously not intended for the same purpose and I’m glad it’s a great fit.
I’m not here to dog on your choices and freely admit, other than your pics in the other thread, I have not seen any Fiestas with rollbars. If your comfortable with your choice, great! I’m simply saying that I’d like likely take a different route.
 


TemecFist

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#35
That's not an apples to apples comparison. The Autopower will be about $600 for the their U-Weld "6 point front" cage and still needs to be welded in. The labor will still be required and it will end up being very close to the same cost, but will be custom fit and be Moly.

The original poster said he was quoted $3,000 for a six point, which is why I bring up that comparison. Yes the Moly custom one will cost probably $600-1,000 more. In my PERSONAL opinion, that is worth it. However each person has to make that decision on their own.

I do agree that if a bolt in cage will accomplish the goals it will be cheaper. However there are upsides to the custom/moly setup. Just a matter of if the upsides justify the cost to the individual.
What makes you think the extra $600-1k would be worth it? (Not trying to be a jerk)
I've seen more moly cages effed up than I care to admit. Most people do not know that to properly weld moly, it needs to be heated first, not just bent, notched then welded. I used to work for a company called Chenowth way back in the day making Class 1 cars, and we had a huge machine that just pre-heated moly all day long for chassis and cages. I've got to stick by my initial statement. A true moly cage (fitted and welded properly) is no where near 3-4k. Also, going with moly (added labor costs due to preheating and tig) offers no significant advantage over DOM or even mild steel other than weight savings (which we all know about), but when you look at the actual weight savings, we are talking less than 100lbs.
And tthen there is the age old debate of full cages in street cars. For a street car, a bolt in BAR is all that's needed, but, it may need some improvements (ie: bigger floorplates for the autopower bar). Just my opinion.
 


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#36
What makes you think the extra $600-1k would be worth it? (Not trying to be a jerk)
I don't take it as you being a jerk at all, valid question!

The weight savings is substantial in a high effort build. The ability to make any changes you may want, add tabs if wanted or needed for things like seat backing, cameras, fire extinguisher before the cage was finished. Since every car can be different in tolerances, setup, etc. it also allows for the most precise fitment. Examples being if headliner or pillar trims were to be used or not used.
 


TemecFist

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#37
I don't take it as you being a jerk at all, valid question!

The weight savings is substantial in a high effort build. The ability to make any changes you may want, add tabs if wanted or needed for things like seat backing, cameras, fire extinguisher before the cage was finished. Since every car can be different in tolerances, setup, etc. it also allows for the most precise fitment. Examples being if headliner or pillar trims were to be used or not used.
But you could just as easily do tabs on the Autopower bar, right?
 


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#38
But you could just as easily do tabs on the Autopower bar, right?
Depends on if it was pre-finished. If so you would have to remove and replace finish as well as weld the tabs on. This would all add to the cost as well. The benefit of a custom cage in this particular situation is potentially nipping these problems in the bud before you have to refinish.
 


TemecFist

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#39
Depends on if it was pre-finished. If so you would have to remove and replace finish as well as weld the tabs on. This would all add to the cost as well. The benefit of a custom cage in this particular situation is potentially nipping these problems in the bud before you have to refinish.
Agreed. But I would think if you were planning on adding tabs or something, you wouldnt order the bar finished.
I agree with you....for a high level competition car, I would want a true custom cage (not a $4k cage), but if we are talking about just street cars, then a pre-fabbed bolt in cage (with option to weld in or bigger floor plates) will fit 98% of the customer base. If the Autopower has crappy fitment, then yeah, I definitely would not have went that route, but I honestly dont think that their fitment can be improved upon, custom or not. I would NOT use Autopowers (or anyone's for that matter) bolt in cage for a dedicated, high level of comp car, that's sure.
 


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