TT ***S290*** thread :)

[ron@whoosh]

(2) S290 kits will be available for purchase later today on the whoosh site
these 2 are the only kits available anywhere - could be 2-4 months before parts and product resume for the S290

 

[Jabbit]

(2) S290 kits will be available for purchase later today on the whoosh site
these 2 are the only kits available anywhere - could be 2-4 months before parts and product resume for the S290

I think you should make it legally required for anyone that buys a kit to post results.

 

[Mega ST]

Whats the lbs/min? Seems the 280 is more than enough for the stock motor. Built motor a prerequisite?

 

[Jabbit]

I saw it on the site. I drooled. I closed the tab.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

I think you should make it legally required for anyone that buys a kit to post results.

We will have results here shortly!

 

[GripKxng]

Whats the lbs/min? Seems the 280 is more than enough for the stock motor. Built motor a prerequisite?

The S290 pulls harder on the top end than the s280 and doesn’t have to work as hard to do it. If you are building anything 380whp+ , the s290 will be a more efficient system in my opinion. I’m betting it sacrifices a bit of torque on the low end but makes up for it in the upper rpm range compared to the s280

Team NDR in Australia claims they got 391whp out of it , so it makes a tad less power than their g25 did, but they mentioned that the s290 has a much more usable powerband than G series turbo. And they are happier running the s290 than the g25.

It basically has true big turbo characteristics like a Gen II GTX or G25, but has a better spool in the lower rpm range. It is kind of like the missing link of turbos since it is a balance of high horsepower and usability of the powerband.

Built motor isn’t a pre requisite unless you’re pushing close to 400whp and above, and all a “built” 1.6L needs is just ductile liners and it can take 400whp all day long.

 

[gtx3076]

The S290 pulls harder on the top end than the s280 and doesn’t have to work as hard to do it. If you are building anything 380whp+ , the s290 will be a more efficient system in my opinion. I’m betting it sacrifices a bit of torque on the low end but makes up for it in the upper rpm range compared to the s280

Team NDR in Australia claims they got 391whp out of it , so it makes a tad less power than their g25 did, but they mentioned that the s290 has a much more usable powerband than G series turbo. And they are happier running the s290 than the g25.

It basically has true big turbo characteristics like a Gen II GTX or G25, but has a better spool in the lower rpm range. It is kind of like the missing link of turbos since it is a balance of high horsepower and usability of the powerband.

Built motor isn’t a pre requisite unless you’re pushing close to 400whp and above, and all a “built” 1.6L needs is just ductile liners and it can take 400whp all day long.

Without seeing a graph I still think the S280 would be the most balanced for daily driving. I would really like to see the torque curves side by side.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

Without seeing a graph I still think the S280 would be the most balanced for daily driving. I would really like to see the torque curves side by side.

This is a true statement. We were having to turn down the boost in the mid RPM range to *try* and keep the rods inside the block. It is the perfect turbo for literally any power number from 260whp to 380whp. Anything over the 380 mark is undoubtedly spinning it harder than it's meant to, but can be done.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

It’s time 😎

 

[GripKxng]

Without seeing a graph I still think the S280 would be the most balanced for daily driving. I would really like to see the torque curves side by side.

I agree and believe the s280 is fine for most folks . The S290 is for those who want a more efficient 400whp+ weapon.

I personally wouldn’t want the s290 because I don’t ever plan on building the car deal with more 300whp tbh. As 300whp in 2700lbs car is extremely capable in day to day street driving tbh. Any more power is kinda overkill unless you like going to Mexico, but I’m more of a backroads guy myself.

On the other hand, if I were M015 Fiestas shoes I’d swap to the S290 in a heartbeat. Since he is part of the 400 whp club.

Like any other turbo offered for this platform, whether it is worth it largely depends on your budget and intended application.

 

[Mega ST]

The S290 pulls harder on the top end than the s280 and doesn’t have to work as hard to do it. If you are building anything 380whp+ , the s290 will be a more efficient system in my opinion. I’m betting it sacrifices a bit of torque on the low end but makes up for it in the upper rpm range compared to the s280

Team NDR in Australia claims they got 391whp out of it , so it makes a tad less power than their g25 did, but they mentioned that the s290 has a much more usable powerband than G series turbo. And they are happier running the s290 than the g25.

It basically has true big turbo characteristics like a Gen II GTX or G25, but has a better spool in the lower rpm range. It is kind of like the missing link of turbos since it is a balance of high horsepower and usability of the powerband.

Built motor isn’t a pre requisite unless you’re pushing close to 400whp and above, and all a “built” 1.6L needs is just ductile liners and it can take 400whp all day long.

So you think the stock rods are up to the task? MO15 seemed to throw a rod judging from his video. I've always had bad luck when it comes to built motors and longevity. I've actually started considering a hybrid turbo to avoid the temptation of pushing the stock motor too far after seeing his vid. Lol.

 

[gtx3076]

So you think the stock rods are up to the task? MO15 seemed to throw a rod judging from his video. I've always had bad luck when it comes to built motors and longevity. I've actually started considering a hybrid turbo to avoid the temptation of pushing the stock motor too far after seeing his vid. Lol.

I had a bad experience with a “built” motor on another platform. I’ve watched countless threads of folks with built motors constantly chasing gremlins and addressing issues. I’m a fan of enjoying whatever the stock motor will allow until I can afford for a car to be a paper weight for months. If I blew this motor I’d put another stock motor back in and turn it down a little.

 

[Mega ST]

My feelings too. Built motor puts the car in race car territory and bye bye everyday reliability and fun. I would love to trap 120+mph, but not at the cost of everyday drivability and reliability. I was following MO15's build very closely to see what the stock motor could handle long term. He found it. MO was pushing the envelope and really helped advanced this platform to the next level. If you've ever had a high strung 4 banger before, you know the diff between everyday beat the crap out it fun and when you go beyond into race car territory followed by the issue that come with it. I still daily my car so not quite ready to go that far. S290 will be the next great evolution into taking this platform to fully built territory numbers. I'm sure MO will be trapping 130+ in no time.

 

[GripKxng]

So you think the stock rods are up to the task? MO15 seemed to throw a rod judging from his video. I've always had bad luck when it comes to built motors and longevity. I've actually started considering a hybrid turbo to avoid the temptation of pushing the stock motor too far after seeing his vid. Lol.

I believe a number of things taken into consideration can increase the longevity of the rods at high horsepower. One big way the rods would be much less stressed out if these motors ran a high flow ported head, since the 1.6L head starts to choke for air near the 375whp mark. High flow head would allow the engine to run 400whp with way less boost, and as everyone knows less boost means less cylinder pressure, which is of course less stress on the rods. To my understanding, it seems like after 30psi that the lifespan of the 1.6L dramatically decreases in high horsepower applications.

While the head is out , I think ductile liners would need to be installed, to prevent the block from warping form the extreme amount of torque produced in high hp applications.

Fueling can help alleviate stress on the rods too. Ideally the car would have to run on both ethanol alongside 50/50 WMI (ideally 100% meth tho) at the same time. So on top of a high flow head, an E40-E50 ethanol tune + a 100% meth tune would then further allow for the same horsepower for less psi

Also cams can dramatically shift the high torque curve in favor of a high hp curve.

The type of turbo matters too. For 400whp the S290 and the G25 produce considerably less torque than the s280 down low, and low end torque from the turbos do NOT make our eco boost happy. In fact a lot of the torque in the s280 is usually tuned out in high horsepower builds because it is very dangerous for our soft, economy car aluminum blocks to deal with such extreme forces. Otherwise if it not tuned out at some point , your cylinders will oval out and the block will warp pushing all that boost without ductile liners.

TL DR version: High torque and high cylinder pressures kill the rods in our car.
Therefore a motor with a ported head running aftermarket cams with a mixture of ethanol and WMI , and a turbo that isn’t torquey (like the s280 or hybrid ) but produces high horsepower like the G25 or S290 would be the most effective way to dramatically lower cylinder pressure, while at the same time maintaining high horsepower, effectively increasing the life span of the rotating assembly in the block. Basically you’d need a unicorn of a fiesta st to run 400whp without too much worry.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

So you think the stock rods are up to the task? MO15 seemed to throw a rod judging from his video. I've always had bad luck when it comes to built motors and longevity. I've actually started considering a hybrid turbo to avoid the temptation of pushing the stock motor too far after seeing his vid. Lol.

Between Adam and I we believe it lifted a head and/or ovaled a cylinder due to cylinder pressure. Considering the boost pressure we were seeing that isn't a major surprise. From that point further damage ensued. It did break a rod but that's likely because the cylinder was no longer round and the piston got wedged in the bore.

 

[Mega ST]

Did you notice any slap before the failure? So with a block guard equivalent the motor could have survived at 400whp possibly . With one installed it would be an interesting experiment to see what would fail next at that HP or higher.

 

[GripKxng]

Between Adam and I we believe it lifted a head and/or ovaled a cylinder due to cylinder pressure. Considering the boost pressure we were seeing that isn't a major surprise. From that point further damage ensued. It did break a rod but that's likely because the cylinder was no longer round and the piston got wedged in the bore.

You should consider some high strength cylinder liners for the next 1.6L , they’ll run 400-500whp like a champ and will prevent the cylinders from ovaling due to the extreme amount of cylinder pressure from our poorly flowing heads.

 

[GripKxng]

Did you notice any slap before the failure? So with a block guard equivalent the motor could have survived at 400whp possibly . With one installed it would be an interesting experiment to see what would fail next at that HP or higher.

This is just a guess but usually whenever you introduce 30-35psi worth of boost, there is no warning, the motor will just randomly decide to shit itself with no warning at all.

Typically rod slap or knock is something you will see as a warning sign from engines that suffered oil starvation, not extreme boost.

 

[Mega ST]

I was refering to piston slap being the cylinder may have been oval.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

Did you notice any slap before the failure? So with a block guard equivalent the motor could have survived at 400whp possibly . With one installed it would be an interesting experiment to see what would fail next at that HP or higher.

There were no signs of failing. I had just done a 60-130 run about 6-7 minutes prior that was in line with all of my other times. Pulled around to do a second one and that's when it let go.