Valve Keeper In The Oil!

[HAHAFiST]

Simply put. I found a valve keeper attached to my magnetic drain plug during and oil change. I’m really stuck on how to proceed. Not gonna drive the car. I am contemplating removing the valve cover and looking for a smoking gun and if not then I may have to go as far as removing the camshaft which I’m really not excited about doing.

Couple things that I find it odd.

1. How did this piece get to the oil pan without being harmed? From what I’ve understood with some master technicians, it’s nearly impossible for these things to get past the canned buckets so I’m wondering what pathway it would’ve taken without getting demolished.

2. It is risky but I am curious if this is just a “spare parts“ left by the factory on accident in the car is fine. Currently the car runs smooth and doesn’t really seem to have any excessive noise outside of normal direct injection noise.

Looking for some input on this because I feel super stuck and I still owe money on the car.

The car has 84,000 miles on it and I’ve never over revved it or money shifted it. It has seen plenty of high rev downshift but it is never gone past limit.

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[TyphoonFiST]

Ill put money on it that it was left during assembly in the oil pan*

 

[HAHAFiST]

Ill put money on it that it was left during assembly in the oil pan*

That’s what I want to believe, just hard to prove. I also think the head assemblies get built separately if the engine bud you never know. I know the right thing to do is to inspect but it could quickly become a rabbit hole... and cost me more money late on. Gah


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[TyphoonFiST]

Take off the valve cover and inspect all the valves for the keepers. Then do a leakdown test that will set you free also*

 

[HAHAFiST]

Take off the valve cover and inspect all the valves for the keepers. Then do a leakdown test that will set you free also*

I wish it was as simple as just the valve cover but the cams have to come out to since the buckets underneath the cam cover the springs you have to remove the buckets out in order to see the spring and how it is retained. Leak down test is definitely on the list as well


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[PhoenixM3]

Ill put money on it that it was left during assembly in the oil pan*

Agreed. Zero marks on the piece.

 

[HAHAFiST]

Agreed. Zero marks on the piece.

I talked to a master technician and they say it’s nearly impossible that the keeper would actually get damaged on the way down because there’s no room for it to go through the cam buckets. The only option is for it to head straight down to the oil pan as there are some oil galleys that go straight from the head to the oil pan. So it’s still not out of the realm of possibility that this actually did come off and it’s not an extra piece from the factory


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[Quisp]

It's in here , the only opening is the valve guide .

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[HAHAFiST]

It's in here , the only opening is the valve guide .

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Right. Okay so I don’t see how this makes sense that it made it way out unharmed and not causing catastrophic damage.

Unless there's some hidden pathway in the center of the head... I don't see how it would make its way out the top of the cam assembly...seems like down through the ports is the only way... and that wouldve caused major damage

It couldn’t have come out of the top side cause the cam bucket is closing it off.

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[slopoke]

If you think about it. How would a valve keeper make it's way out from under a bucket? If it did, something had to have broke causing more damage. Since the engine is still working fine, I'd chalk it up to one of those things and press on normally.

 

[HAHAFiST]

If you think about it. How would a valve keeper make it's way out from under a bucket? If it did, something had to have broke causing more damage. Since the engine is still working fine, I'd chalk it up to one of those things and press on normally.

That’s kind of where I’m coming from as well. The only place it could have gone was down in the valve stem is in the way of the only opening it could’ve gone so unless the valve is completely broken and the cam bucket is missing I don’t see how my engine is running fine and that thing made it out in one piece perfectly preserved.


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[shouldbeasy]

That’s kind of where I’m coming from as well. The only place it could have gone was down in the valve stem is in the way of the only opening it could’ve gone so unless the valve is completely broken and the cam bucket is missing I don’t see how my engine is running fine and that thing made it out in one piece perfectly preserved.


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Which is cheaper - new engine or cost of inspection?

If this was me, I'd be hunting down exactly where it came from - you'll be thinking about it all the time driving the car otherwise.

Regarding the condition of the keeper - ya don't know what ya don't know. It may be logical that it received some damage while being ejected but in reality, everything is happening so fast at the valve / camshaft so it's impossible to evaluate everything and be certain of precisely what happened. Unless it has been viewed happening during the engineering process of course. Perhaps the tolerance for the valve through the head and the spring caps is keeping it centered and ONE retainer is keeping the valve in place. Enough force though and it will not be able to control the valve. The engine MAY be operating fine now but it won't be if operated at low speed, high boost conditions (highest torque potential for the engine).

All in all, very odd, but as mentioned, if I were you I wouldn't be ignoring it. With so many miles on the vehicle it's HIGHLY unlikely it came as a loose piece from the factory. Not impossible but highly improbable.

 

[HAHAFiST]

Which is cheaper - new engine or cost of inspection?

If this was me, I'd be hunting down exactly where it came from - you'll be thinking about it all the time driving the car otherwise.

Regarding the condition of the keeper - ya don't know what ya don't know. It may be logical that it received some damage while being ejected but in reality, everything is happening so fast at the valve / camshaft so it's impossible to evaluate everything and be certain of precisely what happened. Unless it has been viewed happening during the engineering process of course. Perhaps the tolerance for the valve through the head and the spring caps is keeping it centered and ONE retainer is keeping the valve in place. Enough force though and it will not be able to control the valve. The engine MAY be operating fine now but it won't be if operated at low speed, high boost conditions (highest torque potential for the engine).

All in all, very odd, but as mentioned, if I were you I wouldn't be ignoring it. With so many miles on the vehicle it's HIGHLY unlikely it came as a loose piece from the factory. Not impossible but highly improbable.

Cheaper would be selling it now to Carmax! Haha


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[HAHAFiST]

Which is cheaper - new engine or cost of inspection?

If this was me, I'd be hunting down exactly where it came from - you'll be thinking about it all the time driving the car otherwise.

Regarding the condition of the keeper - ya don't know what ya don't know. It may be logical that it received some damage while being ejected but in reality, everything is happening so fast at the valve / camshaft so it's impossible to evaluate everything and be certain of precisely what happened. Unless it has been viewed happening during the engineering process of course. Perhaps the tolerance for the valve through the head and the spring caps is keeping it centered and ONE retainer is keeping the valve in place. Enough force though and it will not be able to control the valve. The engine MAY be operating fine now but it won't be if operated at low speed, high boost conditions (highest torque potential for the engine).

All in all, very odd, but as mentioned, if I were you I wouldn't be ignoring it. With so many miles on the vehicle it's HIGHLY unlikely it came as a loose piece from the factory. Not impossible but highly improbable.

To your point though, I don’t understand how this car could have this many miles on it and the one time I have a magnetic drain plug I find a valve keeper.


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[XR650R]

To your point though, I don’t understand how this car could have this many miles on it and the one time I have a magnetic drain plug I find a valve keeper.


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It has to have been in the oil pan the whole time. It could not have gotten there otherwise, without serious damage to something. It appears undamaged. Without a magnetic drain plug, it would have just stayed there forever, having nowhere to go.

Somebody dropped it while installing the valvetrain, and didn't try to retrieve it.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Yes, maybe you took a very high g turn, or did a very hard launch, and the magnet just caught it at that time.

 

[HAHAFiST]

^^^Yes, maybe you took a very high g turn, or did a very hard launch, and the magnet just caught it at that time.

I did two canyon runs back to back this month and one of them had a lot of hair pins but at the same time it just seems weird that it would catch at this moment but that makes sense. I was just about ready to undo it the hpfp line but I’m contemplating stopping at this point.


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[HAHAFiST]

It has to have been in the oil pan the whole time. It could not have gotten there otherwise, without serious damage to something. It appears undamaged. Without a magnetic drain plug, it would have just stayed there forever, having nowhere to go.

Somebody dropped it while installing the valvetrain, and didn't try to retrieve it.

I would imagine there Hass to be an oil passageway though between the cam bucket and The valve opening so that it can relieve oil and it’s possible that if the spring is someone busted or some thing that may be the cam bucket went low enough to where it bounced up and out who knows.


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[jeff]

It has to have been in the oil pan the whole time. It could not have gotten there otherwise, without serious damage to something. It appears undamaged. Without a magnetic drain plug, it would have just stayed there forever, having nowhere to go.

Somebody dropped it while installing the valvetrain, and didn't try to retrieve it.

Go with this, get a root beer float, and enjoy the evening.

 

[HAHAFiST]

Go with this, get a root beer float, and enjoy the evening.

\I think the linchpin for me is... can the keeper escape... is there an oil passage way that allows it to escape to the bottom. I'm trying to find some diagrams.

Are some of the yellow marked openings for oil and some for coolant... seems big enough if there's an opening in the side off the valve area.