Fiesta ST Turbo engine verses Escort Turbo engine

[Jim Jordan]

Hello to all

I own a repairs shop in Northern California. Recently we replaced a engine in a 2014 Ford Fiesta ST with a 1.6l DOHC Turbo, reason for replacement = a cracked head. The used engine we installed came from LKQ Recyclers with under 15k miles and was pulled out of a 2016 Escape Turbo. LKQ claims the interchange software they use indicates the engines are both the same with no internal differences.
Customer is unhappy with replacement motor we installed indication engine has less horsepower and a loss of power.
My local Ford dealer tells me that the crankshaft, camshaft and piston are same part numbers for both motors so we are assuming the lower end of both motors are the same. The Ford part numbers between the 2 long blocks are different, the dealer believes this is because the heads are different. The Ford part numbers on the heads are also different.

Can anyone out there tell me the internal differences between these 2 engines?

HELP!
Jim Jordan

Vin # 2014 Ford Fiesta: 3FADP4GX7EM221953
Vin # 2016 Ford Escape: 1FMCU9GX7GUB16173
Engine part # Fiesta: CIBZ6006B
Engine part# Escape:CJSZ6006K
Head part # Fiesta: BM5Z6049L
Head part # Escape: BM5Z6049D

 

[XR650R]

Yes. The engines are tuned differently. The FiST makes the most power of any of the 1.6 turbos. It's not really an "eco" motor. If the new engine is a later year, the different part numbers mean the updated head, which is redesigned so it won't crack.

Flash the standard Fiesta ST tune, and it should perform the same.

 

[Dpro]

Yes. The engines are tuned differently. The FiST makes the most power of any of the 1.6 turbos. It's not really an "eco" motor.

Flash the standard Fiesta ST tune, and it should perform the same.

This would make sense because the Escape engine though being the same is not rated at our HP.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Time to get a new Ford head?

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[XR650R]

I looked it up, and the newer Escapes get a 1.5 instead of the 1.6. Hopefully, this one came from a '16.

EDIT: Oh, I see that it did. Good deal. A Ford dealer can flash the tune, or, if the owner wants something more, an aftermarket tune will make it sing.

 

[Dpro]

I looked it up, and the newer Escapes get a 1.5 instead of the 1.6. Hopefully, this one came from a '16.

Oh snap that would be messed up/

 

[XR650R]

Oh snap that would be messed up/

I think I read that that's because they sell them in China, and you have to pay a tax for an engine over 1.5.

 

[Ford ST]

I believe the other guys have nailed it the cylinder head was changed later on due to cracking. The 2014 and 2016 1.6 would not have the same part number for the cylinder head.
He didn't change the PCM so the tune should be the same.
I know you are smarter than that.


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[XR650R]

Hello to all

I own a repairs shop in Northern California. Recently we replaced a engine in a 2014 Ford Fiesta ST with a 1.6l DOHC Turbo, reason for replacement = a cracked head. The used engine we installed came from LKQ Recyclers with under 15k miles and was pulled out of a 2016 Escape Turbo. LKQ claims the interchange software they use indicates the engines are both the same with no internal differences.
Customer is unhappy with replacement motor we installed indication engine has less horsepower and a loss of power.
My local Ford dealer tells me that the crankshaft, camshaft and piston are same part numbers for both motors so we are assuming the lower end of both motors are the same. The Ford part numbers between the 2 long blocks are different, the dealer believes this is because the heads are different. The Ford part numbers on the heads are also different.

Can anyone out there tell me the internal differences between these 2 engines?

HELP!
Jim Jordan

Vin # 2014 Ford Fiesta: 3FADP4GX7EM221953
Vin # 2016 Ford Escape: 1FMCU9GX7GUB16173
Engine part # Fiesta: CIBZ6006B
Engine part# Escape:CJSZ6006K
Head part # Fiesta: BM5Z6049L
Head part # Escape: BM5Z6049D

I just want to commend Jim for caring enough about his customer to come here and ask about it.

That's a good mechanic.

You got your customer an updated engine that isn't gonna blow, and now you know what to do to get it fast as it should be.

 

[Jim Jordan]

First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. They were all most helpful. I’m definitely feeling better about not needing to replace the engine under warranty. I now just need to figure out how to mend my relationship with LKQ as I challenged there integrity.

I only have one final question, if we did not change the PCM why the need to have the Ford dealer flash, as member FORD ST pointed out, the tune should be the same.

Jim Jordan
Santa Cruz Tire and Auto

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Just a precaution latest software update....blah blah blah. Plus it's a 14' might do some good just to be up to date with the software.

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[XR650R]

First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. They were all most helpful. I’m definitely feeling better about not needing to replace the engine under warranty. I now just need to figure out how to mend my relationship with LKQ as I challenged there integrity.

I only have one final question, if we did not change the PCM why the need to have the Ford dealer flash, as member FORD ST pointed out, the tune should be the same.

Jim Jordan
Santa Cruz Tire and Auto

It isn't the same tune. You've got an engine tuned for an SUV. It makes good torque for daily driving, with an eye on getting decent mileage.
That same engine in the ST makes more power, since the ST is a sporty car.

Go to :40. He talks about the calibration.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0aPrdP0d0

 

[Ford ST]

It isn't the same tune. You've got an engine tuned for an SUV. That same engine in the ST makes more power, since the ST is a sportier car.

Go to :50. He talks about the calibration.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0aPrdP0d0

Think about this the PCM is what holds the tune not the engine. You don't put a calibration inside of an engine.

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[XR650R]

Think about this the PCM is what holds the tune not the engine. You don't put a calibration inside of an engine.

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Exactly. The engines are the same, physically. The difference is in what the computer tells the engine to do. In the case of the Escape, it's "Make good torque to haul this SUV around without burning too much fuel."
In the FiST, it's "make tons of power to compete with the other hot hatches in your class."

Of course, this car doesn't have any direct competition in this country, but it does in Europe. They're hot sellers over there.

 

[Tim-H]

I think what Jim is saying is that the PCM was not replaced, only the engine was replaced.

If the PCM was not replaced(essentially never removed from the fiesta, just plugged into the replacement engine) why would the performance be different?

 

[XR650R]

I think what Jim is saying is that the PCM was not replaced, only the engine was replaced.

If the PCM was not replaced(essentially never removed from the fiesta, just plugged into the replacement engine) why would the performance be different?

I'm no expert, but I think that if the engine is still acting like an Escape engine, and not delivering the power you would expect of an ST, it still thinks it's an Escape engine. The car's ECU may not automatically install the FiST tune on a newly-installed engine from a different vehicle.

 

[Ford ST]

I'm no expert, but I think that if the engine is still acting like an Escape engine, and not delivering the power you would expect of an ST, it still thinks it's an Escape engine. The car's ECU may not automatically install the FiST tune on a newly-installed engine from a different vehicle.

You have a serious lack of understanding.

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[XR650R]

You have a serious lack of understanding.

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Then what is it?

 

[Ford ST]

Then what is it?

I don't know why his customers is not happy.
Boost leak, bad fuel, bad turbo, clogged catalytic converter, intercooler full of blown motor trash.
I don't know why the guy blew his engine. You hook up a professional level scan tool and you monitor and analyze everything.

A engine is mechanical it knows nothing other than to rotate. Fuel injectors, and ignition coils know nothing except what the computer tells it to do. Regardless if the engine comes from a Fiesta ST, Escape, or fusion doesn't matter it's all the exact same engine the only difference is the tune in the computer.
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[draxxus131]

I believe what is needed to mend the issue with the customer ultimately could boil down to the PCM "ECU" from the car said engine was pulled from. I'm not entirely sure if Ford included a PATS into the computer, if it turns out they didn't you can use ANY ecu from a Fiesta ST.

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