Post your datazap datalogs !!

[SFP]

LOL just fixed that Skittle!

 

[SFP]

I have a good place to do whatever I want pull wise. I forgot to put my weight in

This is the Stage 1 93 OTS Map.

I do not throw the code with the Stage 0 Map Installed or Factory.

 

[dyn085]

It's probably a better idea to start your log 500 rpm later, especially in fourth gear. Are you hitting the limiter if you do a log in third as well? Unless you already have, I'd do another run in a lower gear starting at 2k rpm and if that does well try another fourth gear run, but starting at 2k rpm. If anything it just looks like you're in a cool-air, high-load, high-gear situation because you're only barely getting throttle closure.

As for timing-it's an OTS map and it's only stage 1. Cobb has to take into consideration the fact that not everyone is going to be getting quality fuel. At the very least, it's still more timing than Charest has on a Mountune map (though I assume it's a 91 map). Edit: Yes, Charest is on a 91 map, I forgot to read the notes.

 

[SFP]

It's probably a better idea to start your log 500 rpm later, especially in fourth gear. Are you hitting the limiter if you do a log in third as well? Unless you already have, I'd do another run in a lower gear starting at 2k rpm and if that does well try another fourth gear run, but starting at 2k rpm. If anything it just looks like you're in a cool-air, high-load, high-gear situation because you're only barely getting throttle closure.

As for timing-it's an OTS map and it's only stage 1. Cobb has to take into consideration the fact that not everyone is going to be getting quality fuel. At the very least, it's still more timing than Charest has on a Mountune map (though I assume it's a 91 map).

I have tested this in every gear and it seems to do it no mater what if I run the car full throttle. I was just more concerned of it causing any issues down the road.

Cobb asked that the logs be done in 4th so that's what I shot for. I didn't wanna push it to much (Law Wise) so I did 2 logs back to back with the STG 0 Map and 2 logs with the STG 1 93 OTS Map.

As long as I wont have long term repercussions of it doing this I can learn to ignore it till I upgrade some hard parts and do a custom tune.

 

[dyn085]

I wouldn't worry much then, many FiSTers have significantly worse or even multiple closures. It won't cause an issue outside of annoyance.

 

[SFP]

I wouldn't worry much then, many FiSTers have significantly worse or even multiple closures. It won't cause an issue outside of annoyance.

OK, Thanks for that I just thought it was weird and didn't wanna have any issues with my warranty. The dealer offers a lifetime powertrain and is aware of the STG 1 tune on it. Yay for cool dealerships! It isnt a CEL on the dash its only showing on the AP and clears with the shut off of the car.

 

[Sourskittle]

I wouldn't worry much then, many FiSTers have significantly worse or even multiple closures. It won't cause an issue outside of annoyance.

I have to admit. That throttle closure stuff is super smooth !! "Back in the day" I was getting a HUGE closure from like 3550-5800rpm and didn't even reallize until way later. As long as the boost is there, fueling is still kicking and timing is there, its hard to FEEL a throttle closure but they def show up on the VD and dyno. Again... So lucky we have the AP for logging.

 

[crankin]

Okay I am game to try and figure what the f*** is going on with my car. I have returned everything back to stock except the drop in filter and Mountune elbow.. Spark plugs all gapped 0.031 and read that nothing out of the ordinary. These 3 runs had some cool down time but you can see a little heat soak.

Now the real problem is why is my timing so unpredictable? It climbs steadily then drops like a rock randomly. Keep in mind this is Stage 0 91oct

http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler-1?log=0&data=4-8
http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler-0?log=0&data=4-8
http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler?log=0&data=4-8

Someone point something out I am missing besides it being shitty fuel.

Please note the very erratic throttle angle. What would cause that?

 

[koozy]

Okay I am game to try and figure what the f*** is going on with my car. I have returned everything back to stock except the drop in filter and Mountune elbow.. Spark plugs all gapped 0.031 and read that nothing out of the ordinary. These 3 runs had some cool down time but you can see a little heat soak.

Now the real problem is why is my timing so unpredictable? It climbs steadily then drops like a rock randomly. Keep in mind this is Stage 0 91oct

http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler-1?log=0&data=4-8
http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler-0?log=0&data=4-8
http://www.datazap.me/u/crankin/stage-0-oem-dp-rrm-intercooler?log=0&data=4-8

Someone point something out I am missing besides it being shitty fuel.

Please note the very erratic throttle angle. What would cause that?

first thing I notice is OAR is not at the optimal -1, so it's not running the optimal timing maps, etc. An OAR that's not -1 indicates low fuel quality. Once you get a steady -1 OAR run some more log and compare results.

 

[crankin]

first thing I notice is OAR is not at the optimal -1, so it's not running the optimal timing maps, etc. An OAR that's not -1 indicates low fuel quality. Once you get a steady -1 OAR run some more log and compare results.

You are absolutely correct. My bad. I assumed I was at -1 and did not check because I have been running around for a few days with this tank of fuel. Which leads me again to the same variable of bad fuel. I am gonna give it another day on this fuel and see what it reads. If I don't see any correction I am switching stations all together.

I guess thats what dyn085 meant about checking your data over and over before you submit anything. I'll admit I have been a bit frustrated by this problem I am having and jumped the gun trying to get answers.

 

[koozy]

yeah, that's some crazy throttle closing going on, which isn't a bad thing when it's saving your motor from questionable fuel quality.

 

[dyn085]

You are absolutely correct. My bad. I assumed I was at -1 and did not check because I have been running around for a few days with this tank of fuel. Which leads me again to the same variable of bad fuel. I am gonna give it another day on this fuel and see what it reads. If I don't see any correction I am switching stations all together.

I guess thats what dyn085 meant about checking your data over and over before you submit anything. I'll admit I have been a bit frustrated by this problem I am having and jumped the gun trying to get answers.

I know that it can get frustrating sometimes, which is part of why I created those threads. Over the past couple of years I've watched plenty of people chase their tails in trying to find resolution to issues only to finally come to a realization of bad fuel, bad datalogging procedures, or some other relatively simply solution. Between troubleshooting my own issues and helping friends, that's the most abbreviated version I was able to come up with.

The FiST makes OAR adjustments extremely quickly in comparison to the FoST, and usually I'm at -1 within a few miles of completely normal driving. The FoST, by comparison, has taken weeks if I don't force the issue. Having to force the issue on a FiST should point to bad fuel, but here's how to force OAR nonetheless-

1. Ensure car is at operating temps.

2. Find a relatively long road with a decent amount of incline. It doesn't have to be a huge hill, we're only using it to help hold a load the engine. Less traffic is preferable because you're going to start at a relatively low speed and might be moving quickly by the time your done.

3. At the base of the incline, in third or fourth gear, load the engine with 5-10 lbs of boost and hold it in that boost range (you will have to gradually increase throttle as speed increases) as long as possible before deciding to let off the accelerator. Repeat as necessary.

I would get a few logs on this fuel, once you're at -1, then go add fuel from another convenient reputable gas station and log it again and compare. Fuel is one thing that no other person can tell you 'x' brand is better because it varies so greatly from area to area.

 

[crankin]

I know that it can get frustrating sometimes, which is part of why I created those threads. Over the past couple of years I've watched plenty of people chase their tails in trying to find resolution to issues only to finally come to a realization of bad fuel, bad datalogging procedures, or some other relatively simply solution. Between troubleshooting my own issues and helping friends, that's the most abbreviated version I was able to come up with.

The FiST makes OAR adjustments extremely quickly in comparison to the FoST, and usually I'm at -1 within a few miles of completely normal driving. The FoST, by comparison, has taken weeks if I don't force the issue. Having to force the issue on a FiST should point to bad fuel, but here's how to force OAR nonetheless-

1. Ensure car is at operating temps.

2. Find a relatively long road with a decent amount of incline. It doesn't have to be a huge hill, we're only using it to help hold a load the engine. Less traffic is preferable because you're going to start at a relatively low speed and might be moving quickly by the time your done.

3. At the base of the incline, in third or fourth gear, load the engine with 5-10 lbs of boost and hold it in that boost range (you will have to gradually increase throttle as speed increases) as long as possible before deciding to let off the accelerator. Repeat as necessary.

I would get a few logs on this fuel, once you're at -1, then go add fuel from another convenient reputable gas station and log it again and compare. Fuel is one thing that no other person can tell you 'x' brand is better because it varies so greatly from area to area.

Okay so now it is day 3 on this tank of fuel. I have burned half a tank since I uninstalled most of my parts including the AP and reinstalled AP with stage 0 to get a base line. I have driven up and down numerous long grades in 3rd, 4th and a few WOT that I posted yesterday. Probably 200kms. My OAR has still only reached a paltry 0.29 as of today.

Can anyone tell me if this long run in period is indicative of bad fuel?

 

[koozy]

Can anyone tell me if this long run in period is indicative of bad fuel?

Pretty much points to that. We need to wait for you go through this tank a fill up with fresh fuel from perhaps another supplier and see if you get -1 OAR. -1 OAR takes a few minutes for me, not hours or days. Once it's there for that tank, it doesn't change.

 

[dyn085]

If you have been holding the gear long, something like 5 or 7 seconds iirc, then yes-you have poor fuel.

 

[crankin]

If you have been holding the gear long, something like 5 or 7 seconds iirc, then yes-you have poor fuel.

Hmm, different grade same station. I think it is time to switch up my provider and see what happens.

How does the AP read the OAR? Is there a sensor somewhere that could be at fault as well?

 

[dyn085]

Hmm, different grade same station. I think it is time to switch up my provider and see what happens.

How does the AP read the OAR? Is there a sensor somewhere that could be at fault as well?

I wish I had an exact answer, but I don't know 100%. I think it has to do with the ECU monitoring the AFR, fueling, and ignition timing/corrections used in order to determine what maps it can/should run.

 

[koozy]

info on OAR is available on Cobb.com https://cobbtuning.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204049644-Octane-Adjust-Ratio-OAR-

Octane Adjustment Ratio

Strategy Background
This vehicle is equipped with several dynamic load, airflow, and torque targeting and limiting strategies. These strategies allow the vehicle to
achieve consistent performance with varying atmospheric conditions and fuel quality. There are no set?boost targets? with these strategies, and
as such boost pressure can vary depending on driving conditions.

How It All Works
From the factory, Ford typically designs the base calibration to allow use of 87+ octane fuel and recommends using 91+ octane fuel for optimal
power. They can do this by means of a dynamic multiplier that allows for adjustment of each of these targeting and limiting strategies which we call the ?OAR? (Octane Adjust Ratio). The OAR starts life at a value of 0.0 and is allowed to learn in two directions.When fuel quality and knock sensor feedback are optimal, the OAR will adjust towards -1.0. When these are sub-optimal, the OAR will adjust towards +1.0. I bet you?re wondering why -1.0 is better? Well for one, since this value is a multiplier and not an offset the ECU code can be optimized to use a single table comprised of negative values to handle the spectrum of operating conditions. Take ignition timing corrections for example; with an OAR at -1.0, multiplying against a negative becomes positive which is then added as positive correction to ignition timing.However, when conditions are sub-par a +1.0 OAR will result in negative correction to ignition timing.

How Does It Effect Power?
Additionally, the OAR is used in other strategies such as LSPI (Low Speed Preignition), and part-throttle combustion stability. These are
functions designed to dynamically limit load production in the event that fuel quality is not optimal. We want the ECU to limit load as it will
remove stress and prevent damage automatically! The part-throttle limiter allows for casual driving at moderate loads while
maintaining stoichiometric operation. This allows for increases in fuel mileage but at the expense of heat. Heat is generated much more quickly
with lower octane fuels and can cause detonation. This is why it is necessary for the OAR to step in and allow for adjustment. In the case of
LSPI, the OAR is used to create a blending ratio between three separate load limits to mitigate the possibility of preignition.

How Does COBB Use OAR?
Our calibrations attempt to utilize as many of the OEM strategies as possible to offer the most advanced, powerful, and safest driving experience to you. Most of our calibrations utilize the OAR just as the factory does. However, our calibrations are designed for a specific octane rating and have a no nonsense policy for knock. If the ECU senses knock, we will aggressively adjust the OAR towards positive. We have designed the OAR to be utilized so that maximum performance is achieved for the specified octane. This is why it is important to run the appropriate calibration for your available fuel type!The OAR is also a KAM (keep alive memory) stored value and will be reset upon initial installation of the Accessport. It will take time to learn, so don?t be alarmed after a few days of driving if it?s not fully settled. Once learned the value will persist through each start-up (even through ?change map?). The value may change from time to time based on knock sensor feedback, which is completely normal and expected. If you find the OAR value does not stay near -1.0 when using top tier fuels, please use the Accessport to change to a lower octane calibration until better fuel can be found.

 

[dyn085]

Something else to consider: A lot of people will say to use 'x' brand or avoid 'x' brand-that's 100% unreliable unless they are someone that literally uses or has access to the same fuel stations that you do and have done legitimate testing. There are some brands that generally do better than others, but that doesn't mean that every single station they have issues the best fuel. Conversely, I've seen logs from people using lesser-branded fuel and had excellent results. This also doesn't even take into consideration a good station getting a bad batch of fuel, which is entirely possible.

Whenever possible, test/evaluate fuels from stations that are convenient to you. It's pointless to travel excessively out of your way just because you know a certain station has the best fuel around, but it's also pointless to be running poor fuel if something better lies just across the street. It takes a little time, but it's worth it over the long run imho.

I can't tell anyone that lives somewhere else what their best fuel brand/station is anymore than they can tell me-they and I each have to do our own testing. Take advice of what is working for others, but never rely on it as definitive proof.

/fuel rant

 

[DHM1]

Great oogly moogly, what FMIC are you running with 24psi? Your charge temps are rising 28 degrees during that run.

My car running ~24-25psi and the Mishimoto J-Line rises 1.6 degrees.

http://datazap.me/u/iso100/randy-revision-6-15t-slot-1?log=0&data=4-5&zoom=92-161

I've noticed that even the DHM Monster IC has charge temps that rise 10 degrees or more on a 3rd gear pull. Is the Mishimoto really that good?

The only FMIC that will rise that high is the OEM unit. I have not seen a single aftermarket unit come even remotely close to that.

And, imho, yes-the Moshimoto is really that good. My Cobb unit does not cool as much, though it definitely doesn't rise 10 degrees over ambient. Size is not the only consideration for a FMIC-design and efficiency are of paramount concern as well.

I just want to share this with you guys and everyone else.

Both cars are upgraded turbos, Both cars run withen 1psi of boost, both cars have the same intake, both cars have intake air temps within in 4deg's, and the difference is our DHM intercooler vs Cobb FMIC.






Again like i have said i have data on top of data. I just dont have all the time in the world so i share what i can when i can.

Russ