Virtual Dyno Results Thread

[jeff]

Your weight looks kinda high to me which will inflate your numbers as well.

Thanks, I was pretty careful with that, I did car weight + me + gas. My 3rd gear pulls for Mr. Brunson ended up at 213/295, that could be close, meh.....the car feels pretty great though.

How many times have you seen a dyno operator do a dyno in the wrong gear, spin the tires, do it multiple times, then complain about the Dynojet/Mustang dyno not being trustworthy and assert that they did their best...even though you're looking at the chart that blatantly says otherwise?

I thought this was a forum who people like myself who, in my post, admitted I was new to v-dyno, could come and learn rather than be scolded at every turn by someone who seems to know everything. It's almost predictable, I can post anything anywhere and I get this. I can even post about mods I've put on my car and how I feel about them and have you tell me I am wrong though they are not on your car, and get my thread closed. Real helpful.

But that is the past and I would still buy you a beer some day.....all that aside, the v-dyno software does give the gear option, so being new there is no reason I would have to think that I could not do 2nd, though as the other member pointed out wheel spin throws things off, I have so little I didn't think of that but now that it's been pointed out to me it makes perfect sense.

So what I have learned is that I must datalog/v-dyno in 3rd gear or higher, where I have 100% traction, to get an accurate comparison.



Now...as I think of all of this it brings me to ask you dyn085 a question...I did not think of this until just in the last few moments, but somehow everything is coming together as I type. Yes this time I am bringing up the past but not to fight, just to ask you a question. I remember that Hijinx did that stock vs. CP-E intake v-dyno in 3rd gear. I also remember him writing in 2 places that I read that he spins tires in 3rd gear with all his massive power. How, if he is spinning tires in 3rd, can he datalog in 3rd and expect those v-dynos to be worth anything to say this or that? You are the dyno expert, I ask you. All personal feelings and our previous squabbles aside, I am truly curious. Give me a good answer, I'll believe it, I am trying to learn here.

Thanks!

 

[twolf]

You can still compare the parts of the curve where tires aren't spinning. All vdyno does is compare vehicle acceleration to weight and calculate HP/TQ from it.

 

[jeff]

Your weight looks kinda high to me which will inflate your numbers as well.

What's the fiesta st curb weight? I've seen 2720 and 2742 online. If Jeff weighs 220-240lbs his weight isn't too high.

Source: I weigh 220. Us chubby guys gotta stick up for one another

I used 2740.

I forget not everybody is small like me. Haha. I weigh like 105-110 depending on the day...

Most of the v-dyno plots I've seen have the driver added bringing the weight up to somewhere in the 2900+ range. I've even seen a few over 3000, the big guys. I am closer to 200 depending on what I've eaten that week. I also have a bunch of crap in my car, tools for work and a carseat and such. That's where I got my weight number. in my case I was looking at both this thread and the Tune + thread because alot of guys over there have the same mods as me and got the Tune + tune also, so I wanted to compare apples to apples as they say. Those guys are adding weight too.

Yes, if I lowered it by 200ish pounds we'd have about -10hp/-20tq.

 

[frankiefiesta]

I used 2740.

I forget not everybody is small like me. Haha. I weigh like 105-110 depending on the day...

Jesus....I'm literally 2 of you 0_0 hahahaha

 

[dyn085]

Thanks, I was pretty careful with that, I did car weight + me + gas. My 3rd gear pulls for Mr. Brunson ended up at 213/295, that could be close, meh.....the car feels pretty great though.



I thought this was a forum who people like myself who, in my post, admitted I was new to v-dyno, could come and learn rather than be scolded at every turn by someone who seems to know everything. It's almost predictable, I can post anything anywhere and I get this. I can even post about mods I've put on my car and how I feel about them and have you tell me I am wrong though they are not on your car, and get my thread closed. Real helpful.

But that is the past and I would still buy you a beer some day.....all that aside, the v-dyno software does give the gear option, so being new there is no reason I would have to think that I could not do 2nd, though as the other member pointed out wheel spin throws things off, I have so little I didn't think of that but now that it's been pointed out to me it makes perfect sense.

So what I have learned is that I must datalog/v-dyno in 3rd gear or higher, where I have 100% traction, to get an accurate comparison.



Now...as I think of all of this it brings me to ask you dyn085 a question...I did not think of this until just in the last few moments, but somehow everything is coming together as I type. Yes this time I am bringing up the past but not to fight, just to ask you a question. I remember that Hijinx did that stock vs. CP-E intake v-dyno in 3rd gear. I also remember him writing in 2 places that I read that he spins tires in 3rd gear with all his massive power. How, if he is spinning tires in 3rd, can he datalog in 3rd and expect those v-dynos to be worth anything to say this or that? You are the dyno expert, I ask you. All personal feelings and our previous squabbles aside, I am truly curious. Give me a good answer, I'll believe it, I am trying to learn here.

Thanks!

The problem is that no matter how many times certain people try to give you information, all you want to do is argue and have no intent on learning. I and others have created threads to try and help people datalog and evaluate their information, but here recently people seem to just want to make assumptions and opinions based on their butt-dyno and sounds they here. The problem with doing that is that the body lies whereas data does not. There have been multiple instances now where someone else says what I say and you completely ignore them in order to argue with me, so stop trying to assign blame without accepting any bit of responsibility in it.

And your thread was closed because, just like right now, you keep bringing up old stuff or change the topic just to continue arguing. If you stay on topic then I'll stay on topic with you but, like I also said before, if you want to go off-topic then I'll follow right along because I really don't care about how on-topic a conversation is.

Scolding is not really something I do, or at least not something I ever intend to do. Garbage in = garbage out is something that I've told others as well, I just seem to have to keep reiterating it to you because you're so convinced that V-Dyno is bad. Pretty much all tuners agree that it's a great tool and many users have been able to use it correctly, but if you can't collect good data then you can't get a good V-Dyno. And for clarification, a 'good' V-Dyno has nothing to do with high numbers-I'm strictly talking about consistency and accuracy.

Dyno readings should be taken in a gear that provides as close of a 1:1 ratio as possible. That's usually fourth gear. The problem with using fourth is that it's a large strain on the powertrain and third can give very similar (albeit lower) numbers with less stress.


As for Hijinx, I'm pretty sure the charts you're discussing aren't charts with wheelspin. Just because he can get wheelspin in third doesn't mean that he always is, and if you look at the consistency of his charts you should understand.

You have the capability of proving yourself right or wrong all you want, but it will take time and datalogs to do it. That may involve work too. I get the fact that you're not actually interested in helping progress the platform, but understand that the more you keep fighting for your opinion to matter the less it will if you don't have any substantial information to be peer-reviewed. If you actually want to learn then there are many threads already available for you to read and learn from, or you can just ask, just don't get bothered when we give you an answer or say something that you don't want to hear.

 

[jeff]

Dyn085,

Thanks, that is all good, but if the car spins the wheels in third gear during WOT, and one surely goes WOT when logging, then how can an accurate data log be taken?

 

[dyn085]

If it spins in third then use fourth.

 

[jeff]

No, I am referring to the car that spins tires in 3rd gear that we have discussed using v dyno logs in 3rd gear to prove that an intake does not have the gains that the manufacturer advertises using a real dyno. I am bringing up a past situation because now that you have helped me understand the nature of garbage data used in v dyno charts, I am asking you how a car that spins the wheels in 3rd gear can provide an accurate v dyno chart created from a 3rd gear datalog?

 

[dyn085]

He already stated, even in that thread I believe, that that was an early revision and not reminiscent of his current tune.

 

[jeff]

I see, so any valid data logging he does must be done in 4th gear.

That kinda stinks, it was hard enough finding a place to hit 90 around here in 3rd, I wouldn't want to have to hit 110 or 120 in 4th to get a log.

But kudos to all who do it, just be careful.

 

[dyn085]

I see, so any valid data logging he does must be done in 4th gear.

That kinda stinks, it was hard enough finding a place to hit 90 around here in 3rd, I wouldn't want to have to hit 110 or 120 in 4th to get a log.

But kudos to all who do it, just be careful.

No, not really. Traction various a lot with temperature and pressures so there's no telling whether he has or doesn't have traction in a certain gear with such a simpleton statement. Hijinx is well-respected and either wouldn't post a log with wheelspin or would disclaim it if so.

I kinda figured you were trying to find a way to discredit Hijinx despite all of the info he's provided the forum, I just didn't think you were aiming to try and discredit anything he considers posting in the future. Impressive.

I don't know why you're on a mission to try and discredit members that have posted actual data and technical information to try and help push the community forward, especially when you haven't posted a single datalog, let alone even one comparison.

 

[Hijinx]

There was no wheel slip in those logs. http://datazap.me/u/hijinx/stock-vs-cpe-cai?log=1&data=5-8

Edit- This is two logs. There's a "refresh" like symbol that allows you to swap between the two. If I'd had wheel slip, it would have showed in the RPM as a hump or spike.

Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[dyn085]

There was no wheel slip in those logs. http://datazap.me/u/hijinx/stock-vs-cpe-cai?log=1&data=5-8

Edit- This is two logs. There's a "refresh" like symbol that allows you to swap between the two. If I'd had wheel slip, it would have showed in the RPM as a hump or spike.

Scent from Glade Air Freshener

And in V-Dyno there would be a corresponding hump in the chart and boost plots, like this-

 

[Hijinx]

And in V-Dyno there would be a corresponding hump in the chart and boost plots, like this-

2nd gear? Interesting choice. And all over the place. Waaaay over revved the blue run.

 

[jeff]

Yeah like I said I'm new to the v dyno thing and being that it allows you to choose the gear once you add your log, I thought I'd try that since it is so much easier to get several consecutive runs in 2nd than it is in 3rd.

I am not trying to discredit anyone, I am trying to learn. And yes I too am trying to improve this platform. I'm not here to win arguments or have the fastest car. I could buy any car I wanted; I got the FiST after realizing it was a bucket list car. And i am happy with it.

Dyn085, im still slightly pissed that you discredited my PM brace/bars, you don't have them on your car so you have zero perspective yet somehow you decided they did not do what I reported and then got my thread closed. How that happened or how anyone can pass that over is unexplainable. In the big picture it's no big deal though.

I do have a v dyno of three 3rd gear runs taken during my tuning revisions. Would it help if I posted those? Also, I can post the actual datalog from my final tune, and take some more. Though to be honest I am kind of tired of all this logging, I want to just enjoy the car. But maybe I'll take a few more on the way to work this week, I found a good place heading into the interstate....if the rain holds out, in third gear.

Another question, shouldn't the logs with the new tune look a little different several weeks later after a few hundred miles driving with the new tune since the ECU is learning?

 

[jeff]

And one more question, should I always wait until OAR is at -1 before I log, or is that only important for tuning revisions?

 

[TempeST]

Don't post your logs. Adam specifically mentions this in his emails. You need to discuss it with him before posting them.

As for the -1 to get the most accuracy, yes. However it is basically to ensure that your car is reading the right fuel type for your tune.

 

[dyn085]

Yeah like I said I'm new to the v dyno thing and being that it allows you to choose the gear once you add your log, I thought I'd try that since it is so much easier to get several consecutive runs in 2nd than it is in 3rd.

I am not trying to discredit anyone, I am trying to learn. And yes I too am trying to improve this platform. I'm not here to win arguments or have the fastest car. I could buy any car I wanted; I got the FiST after realizing it was a bucket list car. And i am happy with it.

Dyn085, im still slightly pissed that you discredited my PM brace/bars, you don't have them on your car so you have zero perspective yet somehow you decided they did not do what I reported and then got my thread closed. How that happened or how anyone can pass that over is unexplainable. In the big picture it's no big deal though.

I do have a v dyno of three 3rd gear runs taken during my tuning revisions. Would it help if I posted those? Also, I can post the actual datalog from my final tune, and take some more. Though to be honest I am kind of tired of all this logging, I want to just enjoy the car. But maybe I'll take a few more on the way to work this week, I found a good place heading into the interstate....if the rain holds out, in third gear.

Another question, shouldn't the logs with the new tune look a little different several weeks later after a few hundred miles driving with the new tune since the ECU is learning?

'I' didn't get your thread closed, 'we' did. That whole thread was a shit-show. If you have an issue with the thread being closed then take it up with the moderators and the lack of any sort of warning.

Yes, you were trying to discredit his third-gear logs based on the fact that he's stated he can spin third, even though his charts didn't show any spinning. Then you wanted to discredit any future third-gear logs from him for the same thought. As I've said and you've shown, spinning tires is noticeable in a log and V-Dyno so there's no need to expect someone to use a particular gear.

Future logs won't look much different than current ones. I try to put around 30 miles on the car beefier taking any but haven't seen much of a notable difference.

And one more question, should I always wait until OAR is at -1 before I log, or is that only important for tuning revisions?

OAR is dependent on the tuner. Some tuners like to max out their tune and leave headroom so they write it in a manner that expects you to have -1, others write it using OAR as a function of the tune (like Ford) so it won't always be maxed out before the fuel. As noted, you have to use stage 3 OTS tunes if you're going to post any datalogs or your tuner will drop you.

 

[Hijinx]

Don't post your logs. Adam specifically mentions this in his emails. You need to discuss it with him before posting them.

As for the -1 to get the most accuracy, yes. However it is basically to ensure that your car is reading the right fuel type for your tune.

That's an interesting tactic.

 

[jeff]

Actually that thread was helpful to a lot of people, and it was closed because of you, I spoke with the moderator who closed it. Also I currently have sitting in my inbox seven private messages from different forum members over the last few weeks, people who have experienced the same thing with you and encouraged me not to waste my time anymore.

If you look at the tone of my posts, I hope you'll see that I'm not trying to disprove anyone, I found that I did my logging incorrectly, connected the dots, and wondered if it might affect the previous virtual Dyno in question since it caused so much conversation. If I were trying to discredit people I probably would have chosen a rude and demeaning tone. It should be quite obvious to most reading our various conversations that I have continued to try to build bridges and learn more.

It makes sense not to post my logs, referencing what somebody said above. I will continue to take some though and put them on the virtual Dyno and see how it looks, and look for consistency at the same time. I took a decent one this morning but have not had a chance to look at it yet. I would be interested to see what you guys think based on your experience.

Thanks again for everyone who has helped me understand virtual Dyno stuff, and that includes Hijinx and dyn085.