-
Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features
Welcome to the #1 Fiesta ST Forum and Fiesta ST community dedicated to Fiesta ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Fiesta ST Forum today!
HS Setup
- Thread starter 3DPrinter
- Start date
I read this after working with Konis on both my WRX and my FiST, and it kind of reflected what I had experienced- while adjustability is nice, the repeatability of the Konis is kind of iffy- clicks on one shock don't necessarily equal clicks on another shock, and the amount of change is not steady across a single shocks range of adjustment. If you had access to a shock dyno, it would certainly make the settings more consistent.
That being said, I only had Konis on the rear of my Fiesta- the fronts weren't available at the time, so I went with Bilsteins, and set them originally to 3/4 stiff, but then dialed them back to a 1/4 turn from soft, and I still felt the rear was over-damped. I was then able to fit the B6s all around, and the car felt like it matched, front to rear (not surprising, seeing as it had a full set of B6s!), and rode much better on the street.
I wouldn't doubt that a properly tuned set of Konis would be better for autocross than out of the box B6s in a head to head comparison, BUT I also think that Bilstein has much better suspension experts on staff than me. I happen to have some rear Konis in the classifieds....
edit: added link
That being said, I only had Konis on the rear of my Fiesta- the fronts weren't available at the time, so I went with Bilsteins, and set them originally to 3/4 stiff, but then dialed them back to a 1/4 turn from soft, and I still felt the rear was over-damped. I was then able to fit the B6s all around, and the car felt like it matched, front to rear (not surprising, seeing as it had a full set of B6s!), and rode much better on the street.
I wouldn't doubt that a properly tuned set of Konis would be better for autocross than out of the box B6s in a head to head comparison, BUT I also think that Bilstein has much better suspension experts on staff than me. I happen to have some rear Konis in the classifieds....
edit: added link
Oh man, I feel ripped off now that I paid full price for a set back in November. =(
My HS plan is based on last years HS winner. He had Koni Yellow front/rear. Fronts set ~ 5-8 clicks full soft, rears 1/4 click from full stiff, Catback (for sound, not performance), ligthest 16" wheel you can get... and thats it. He did not run a rear sway as, in his opinion, it would only exacterbate the issue of tri-pod/roll over risk. The car will want to roll from the rear, so a stiffer rear bar will just lift that inner tire even more. He said that the guy that the roll-over risk article was based on was a new driver on sticky tires (R888s?), the point being you just cant be coming out of a faster sweeper in one direction, and then yank on the wheel the other direction.
My HS plan is based on last years HS winner. He had Koni Yellow front/rear. Fronts set ~ 5-8 clicks full soft, rears 1/4 click from full stiff, Catback (for sound, not performance), ligthest 16" wheel you can get... and thats it. He did not run a rear sway as, in his opinion, it would only exacterbate the issue of tri-pod/roll over risk. The car will want to roll from the rear, so a stiffer rear bar will just lift that inner tire even more. He said that the guy that the roll-over risk article was based on was a new driver on sticky tires (R888s?), the point being you just cant be coming out of a faster sweeper in one direction, and then yank on the wheel the other direction.
Thread Starter
#29
Correct me if I'm wrong but while the rear sway bar may pick up the inside tire earlier, it wouldn't increase body roll. If anything picking up that tire earlier would reduce rear grip and cause the back end to come around rather than cause the car to roll more.
A) I am just regurgitating information passed to me by the guy that won nationals last year, so I cant speak to personal experience.
B) I agree that it wont increase body roll, it would reduce it, and take away rear grip sooner. But... Theoretically the way I see the issue: at the point the inside wheel starts to lift (so ouside isnt slipping now, it found traction and is gripping) there is snap effect that could cause the car to roll over more suddenly, instead of giving more warning and leaning over or tripodding.
My practical knowledge. I race RC cars on high bite carpet. A rear sway is a great tuning aid, but when fighting traction rolling removing the RSB can help reduce that sudden snap traction roll problem.
Obviously many people here are running a RSB with success, but the guy that won nationals didnt run one, so I am not going to start off spending that money.
B) I agree that it wont increase body roll, it would reduce it, and take away rear grip sooner. But... Theoretically the way I see the issue: at the point the inside wheel starts to lift (so ouside isnt slipping now, it found traction and is gripping) there is snap effect that could cause the car to roll over more suddenly, instead of giving more warning and leaning over or tripodding.
My practical knowledge. I race RC cars on high bite carpet. A rear sway is a great tuning aid, but when fighting traction rolling removing the RSB can help reduce that sudden snap traction roll problem.
Obviously many people here are running a RSB with success, but the guy that won nationals didnt run one, so I am not going to start off spending that money.
Hello all,
I have not weighed in on any of these discussion threads but I have read every one with great interest. From and competitor standpoint I do not consider myself knowledgeable or skilled enough to offer advice on this (or most other) topics, I believe in keeping my mouth shut and my ears open to learn…
With that said, I can only speak from my experience from running about two seasons regionally in HSteet class.
I run with several good drivers in our region (several are members here) and we have discussed multiple times on what equipment actually improves the car.
In my opinion the only real requirement is a decent lightweight wheel and the best tire for that season.
Koni yellows are a good thing to have and are not too expensive so this is almost a given if it is in your race budget.
I really feel the rear bar is a nice to have / driver dependent item. Some drivers may benefit from it others may not actually see improved times.
The rest is driver talent (or luck in my case) and possibly course dependency. (Part of the reason I like HS class so much, it does not seem to be heavily equipment oriented.)
I base by statements on the fact that I have mostly driven my car stock with 16x7 wheels and re71-R’s and a drop in filter.
My two main competitors have drop in filter, 16x7 wheels and re71-R’s, Koni yellows, Cat back and a rear sway bar.
We trade spots continuously during every event meaning our times are better by a few 10ths between runs. Sometimes I come out on top, other times they will come out faster depending on the day, but it is usually by .5 sec or less on a 40-50 second course. This has held true for 20 + events with 8-12 runs per event.
The first partial season I regularly got beat me by .5 secs or so, the next full season the only change I made was to swap in the Corksport adjustable struts from my Mazda2 about 3/4 of the way through the season.
Running the adjustable struts did seem to have some small improvement, but it may well have been me learning the car better. The results have remained nearly the same with either driver being ahead by a few 10ths.
With all that being said, my plan for this season is to:
1) Swap out the Corksports for Koni yellows (in the front)
2) Test out a rear bar this season. (undecided on which one)
My goal is to do well regionally, maybe go to a few National events and then attend Nationals and have my rear-end handed to me. 😊.
I have not weighed in on any of these discussion threads but I have read every one with great interest. From and competitor standpoint I do not consider myself knowledgeable or skilled enough to offer advice on this (or most other) topics, I believe in keeping my mouth shut and my ears open to learn…
With that said, I can only speak from my experience from running about two seasons regionally in HSteet class.
I run with several good drivers in our region (several are members here) and we have discussed multiple times on what equipment actually improves the car.
In my opinion the only real requirement is a decent lightweight wheel and the best tire for that season.
Koni yellows are a good thing to have and are not too expensive so this is almost a given if it is in your race budget.
I really feel the rear bar is a nice to have / driver dependent item. Some drivers may benefit from it others may not actually see improved times.
The rest is driver talent (or luck in my case) and possibly course dependency. (Part of the reason I like HS class so much, it does not seem to be heavily equipment oriented.)
I base by statements on the fact that I have mostly driven my car stock with 16x7 wheels and re71-R’s and a drop in filter.
My two main competitors have drop in filter, 16x7 wheels and re71-R’s, Koni yellows, Cat back and a rear sway bar.
We trade spots continuously during every event meaning our times are better by a few 10ths between runs. Sometimes I come out on top, other times they will come out faster depending on the day, but it is usually by .5 sec or less on a 40-50 second course. This has held true for 20 + events with 8-12 runs per event.
The first partial season I regularly got beat me by .5 secs or so, the next full season the only change I made was to swap in the Corksport adjustable struts from my Mazda2 about 3/4 of the way through the season.
Running the adjustable struts did seem to have some small improvement, but it may well have been me learning the car better. The results have remained nearly the same with either driver being ahead by a few 10ths.
With all that being said, my plan for this season is to:
1) Swap out the Corksports for Koni yellows (in the front)
2) Test out a rear bar this season. (undecided on which one)
My goal is to do well regionally, maybe go to a few National events and then attend Nationals and have my rear-end handed to me. 😊.
Tomorrow I’m going to order parts for my build.
Koni yellows
Front bar (not rear)
Rivals for locals and some yoks for national events n
I have talked to a couple of trophy winner at Nats from 2019. There is a little bit of a mix of thoughts so there could be more later.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Koni yellows
Front bar (not rear)
Rivals for locals and some yoks for national events n
I have talked to a couple of trophy winner at Nats from 2019. There is a little bit of a mix of thoughts so there could be more later.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Interesting, I had been reading up on the front bar vs rear bar ideas..
One train of thought seems to be that reducing the rear grip with a larger bar increases oversteer which helps balance the car. (This is the model I have always heard)
The other train of thought seems to be that since MacPherson front suspensions gain camber under compression and this reduces the size of the front contact patch in a corner.
Therefore, a larger front bar would reduce the amount of roll, thus reducing the amount of camber gain and help maintain tire contact patch.
There also may be a trade-off of increased wheel spin due to the inside front tire traction loss.
It would be very interesting to see results of different set-ups.
One train of thought seems to be that reducing the rear grip with a larger bar increases oversteer which helps balance the car. (This is the model I have always heard)
The other train of thought seems to be that since MacPherson front suspensions gain camber under compression and this reduces the size of the front contact patch in a corner.
Therefore, a larger front bar would reduce the amount of roll, thus reducing the amount of camber gain and help maintain tire contact patch.
There also may be a trade-off of increased wheel spin due to the inside front tire traction loss.
It would be very interesting to see results of different set-ups.
Yes, that's a good idea... cover both bases at once just in case.
I was looking at the Front bar installation instructions from several manufactures. Unfortunately it appears they all recommend the dropping the front sub-frame for the replacement which will make it more difficult to “undo” the front bar replacement once it is done.
This could make it logistically more difficult to test both bars in the same time-frame… as in back to back testing of some kind, (with timing involved) which would be ideal.
Easy enough to install and uninstall most of the Rear bars, that could be done at an event / test and tune, but the Front would be more problematic since it would require a complete swap from the test bar to the original bar or vice versa.
I was looking at the Front bar installation instructions from several manufactures. Unfortunately it appears they all recommend the dropping the front sub-frame for the replacement which will make it more difficult to “undo” the front bar replacement once it is done.
This could make it logistically more difficult to test both bars in the same time-frame… as in back to back testing of some kind, (with timing involved) which would be ideal.
Easy enough to install and uninstall most of the Rear bars, that could be done at an event / test and tune, but the Front would be more problematic since it would require a complete swap from the test bar to the original bar or vice versa.
Last edited:
Yes, apparently, I failed to convey the humor in my suggestion regarding the ability to test a Front bar in some sort of back to back testing… not actually feasible in the real world.
It would be a very interesting data, but likely not even necessary. The same information may be had from Solo-storm or similar data review after swapping parts.
This doesnt seem to hard. Install front SB, go and test, come in install rear sway bar, and remove end links on front sway bar, go test again...
Similar threads
-
-
-
-
Offside driveshaft setup
- Started by meddylad
- Replies: 0
-
FS (PA): 4x108 16x8 Konig Heliograms w/ 205/45 Yokohama Advan Fleva - 1000 mile setup- Started by blongo804
- Replies: 3
-
Track Day Trailer Setups- Started by razr_m3
- Replies: 19
-
WTB 45mm internal wastegate, buy or trade for external setup?
- Started by oldparkedcars
- Replies: 3
-
-
-
Ford Community Posts
-
-
-
Really Should Stop Modifying my Daily Driver into a Track Car- Latest: Fusion Works
-
