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LBS > HP

Will weight be factor in your next vehicle purchase?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 71.4%
  • No

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Other (see my post)

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

Intuit

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#1
Title of the thread isn't meant to be literal, but symbolic.
I don't think we've been ignoring torque, the way we seem to ignore weight.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a29489785/weight-vs-horsepower-explained/
But I think this man gets it.
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...r-11-days-due-to-slow-sales.16965/post-383916
It would help if we had some other marketing metric to go by; that all manufacturers or at least, automobile reviewers agreed to use. The most simplistic algorithm would merely ratio weight vs torque and horsepower.
In terms of swithing to electric or hybrid, constantly being rough with the accelerator (as we are with the FiST) will drastically impact battery replacement intervals. Those batteries ain't cheap.

He also did this video-article.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29991374/tesla-cybertruck-f-150-tug-of-war/
The far more massive four-wheel-drive tank, versus a lighter two wheel drive truck with little of its weight over the drive axle. Which will win? BIG surprise. /sarcasm
 


M-Sport fan

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#2
Just try to imagine what the performance of all of those 700+ HP Mopar rides would be like (both acceleration, and more importantly, their handling), IF they had 1000 lbs. (or more) LESS mass!! [crazyeye][unbelieveable]
 


CarGuy

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#3
Just try to imagine what the performance of all of those 700+ HP Mopar rides would be like (both acceleration, and more importantly, their handling), IF they had 1000 lbs. (or more) LESS mass!! [crazyeye][unbelieveable]
That's because they are still using a Mercedes Benz E-class chassis underneath them from when Mercedes owned them. Heavy suckers. It should be interesting to see what they do under Fiat ownership. It will either be brilliant or really, really suck.

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Dpro

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#4
I have always said TQ is more important for street driving. Carroll Shelby was famously quoted for the comment TQ wins runs races HP sells cars.
The Tesla Cybertruck demo with the F150 was completely silly. In more ways than was pointed out in the article. They did not even use a Raptor!
Weight is a big deal too me and the GTR is/was in that category where Nissan practically managed to defy the laws of physics with the car.
In the end though I much prefer lighter cars to heavier cars.
 


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#5
There is an Energy Crisis coming and when it happens it's gonna be HUGE. The automakers are going Electric at a rate that the Greenies just love and NOBODY is thinking long term. We have a rather ancient Power Infrastructure in this country and I have yet to see any movement at all in expanding and renovating this infrastructure. Currently it so near it's absolute limit that a few days in the mid to high 90's is all it takes to cause brownout and blackouts. Now imagine what will happen when most of the motorized transportation in this country goes electric. I know full well what will happen and I will be falling down laughing. What will happen is the charging stations for motor vehicles will be metered and probably severely metered. All those folks driving tanks will find they can only get enough charge in their personal vehicles for perhaps 5 to 7 days of commuting. For the rest of the month they will have to pedal. Good news for me is that I won't have to deal with traffic as I put put along in my old school gasoline powered FiST.
 


jeffreylyon

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#6
There is an Energy Crisis coming and when it happens it's gonna be HUGE. The automakers are going Electric at a rate that the Greenies just love and NOBODY is thinking long term. We have a rather ancient Power Infrastructure in this country and I have yet to see any movement at all in expanding and renovating this infrastructure. Currently it so near it's absolute limit that a few days in the mid to high 90's is all it takes to cause brownout and blackouts. Now imagine what will happen when most of the motorized transportation in this country goes electric. I know full well what will happen and I will be falling down laughing. What will happen is the charging stations for motor vehicles will be metered and probably severely metered. All those folks driving tanks will find they can only get enough charge in their personal vehicles for perhaps 5 to 7 days of commuting. For the rest of the month they will have to pedal. Good news for me is that I won't have to deal with traffic as I put put along in my old school gasoline powered FiST.
Most people who have an EV charge at home at night, not at a charging station during the day when the grid is loaded. I could see regulation about only charging EVs during off-peak hours but the downfall of the grid won't be EVs
 


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Thread Starter #7
Manufacturers are going to need to pay more attention to weight.

We've been adding more and more and more and more and more small gadgets to the grid on an hourly basis. By contrast, it takes *massive* amounts of energy to rapidly push/pull, heat/cool a 4,000 lb CUV, SUV, truck. From a normal household standpoint, there has been nothing in our history that approaches that level of consumption. While A/C is a large consumer in a single residential home, "all" it's running is a blower fan, and compressor. That's it. It's not charging/preparing to rapidly overcome the inertial forces of a towing-capable, load-hauling, two ton mass on wheels. There will be a percentage of people who will be charging their vehicle during the day, not necessarily at home, but at work, and still running their A/C during the day. As those ultra-expensive vehicle batteries age, there will be increasingly more, who like their cell phones, will choose to charge them during the day. Cell phone batteries are cheap! (albeit, Apple started a trend that makes them inaccessible to the average user because - cheaper to manufacture - potential revenue to support their stores, additional sales)
 


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#8
I love my FiST stock, but I'm waiting for the day I can add a hybrid turbo and all the suspension upgrades. Then it will really be a pocket rocket.
 


gtx3076

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#9
There is an Energy Crisis coming and when it happens it's gonna be HUGE. The automakers are going Electric at a rate that the Greenies just love and NOBODY is thinking long term. We have a rather ancient Power Infrastructure in this country and I have yet to see any movement at all in expanding and renovating this infrastructure. Currently it so near it's absolute limit that a few days in the mid to high 90's is all it takes to cause brownout and blackouts. Now imagine what will happen when most of the motorized transportation in this country goes electric. I know full well what will happen and I will be falling down laughing. What will happen is the charging stations for motor vehicles will be metered and probably severely metered. All those folks driving tanks will find they can only get enough charge in their personal vehicles for perhaps 5 to 7 days of commuting. For the rest of the month they will have to pedal. Good news for me is that I won't have to deal with traffic as I put put along in my old school gasoline powered FiST.
You won't see any movement expanding or renovating the grid because the government isn't driving it. Think of the Communications Act of 1934 to send telephone infrastructure to unprofitable rural areas or the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956. Businesses' incentive is to create the most profit with the least amount of expense (work).

Creating a flexible, stable, secure grid across the United States that benefits from renewable sources would take a nationwide effort and a skilled workforce.

What's worse is government is being hijacked to pass Broadband Preemption bills prohibiting local communities from doing what broadband companies will not, provide fast, reliable, cheap broadband to their residents. So not only are companies refusing to provide less profitable service, they are also barring localities from doing it themselves with "law". I would expect similar sabotage to any effort to circumvent poorly maintained power grids. https://statescoop.com/communities-lament-rising-tide-of-broadband-preemption/
 


OP
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Thread Starter #10
You can see the appointed head of FCC's record here...
https://www.bing.com/search?q=site:npr.org+Ajit+Pai&pq=site:npr.org+ajit+pai
...and it's largely not a good one.

Many of those types of infrastructure programs were attempted under the 2008 stimulus packages for example...
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100739283
...but the funds have to be responsibly handled by the local governments that receive them... and many vowed not to use it, and/or misappropriated the funds to plug deficits from past spending.

Note how what was once considered "controversial" is now all of a sudden a good idea again (link). But we've been observing that behavior for some time now, and expected as much.
 


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Thread Starter #11
Just try to imagine what the performance of all of those 700+ HP Mopar rides would be like (both acceleration, and more importantly, their handling), IF they had 1000 lbs. (or more) LESS mass!! [crazyeye][unbelieveable]
They'd have to really tweak that suspension (and rubber)... for which there's plenty of technology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_damper#History) to do so.

That suspension I think is one of FarmTruck's "secret" weapons. He can firmly plant that weight right on the drive axle at launch. Severely traction limited environments (no-prep street racing) is where that strategy is able to shine.
 


Quisp

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#12
From a Seattle transit mechanic.

Take for instance the public transit industry. A typical diesel with a Allison or Voith hydraulic automatic powered 40' transit coach. Typical yearly maintenance costs (assuming around a 100-150k mile per year service) will run about 25k dollars if it's a non DPF equipped bus. The SAME bus but in a hybrid costs around 80-100k per year in maintenance costs. Yet they are buying these things in droves and not looking back. It is NOT more environmentally friendly, they typically DO NOT get better fuel mileage, they are NOT more environmentally friendly but it's politically the only direction to go. I don't have accurate yearly maintenance costs for a large fleet of battery only buses handy, but on our test fleet that is not 100% in service they're running around 150k dollars per year. This is JUST maintenance costs, that doesn't include all the costs associated with operation, just what it takes to keep it on the road. I also do some work in the trucking and equipment industries and the dollar figures are not the same but the trend is EXACTLY the same.

There are a LOT of drawbacks to EV stuff, but some of those are simply the hurdles of a technology in it's infancy. But in big cities, especially "progressive/left/liberal" cities the push to go EV is too great and it'll happen because the right pressure is being applied

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Dpro

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#13
From a Seattle transit mechanic.

Take for instance the public transit industry. A typical diesel with a Allison or Voith hydraulic automatic powered 40' transit coach. Typical yearly maintenance costs (assuming around a 100-150k mile per year service) will run about 25k dollars if it's a non DPF equipped bus. The SAME bus but in a hybrid costs around 80-100k per year in maintenance costs. Yet they are buying these things in droves and not looking back. It is NOT more environmentally friendly, they typically DO NOT get better fuel mileage, they are NOT more environmentally friendly but it's politically the only direction to go. I don't have accurate yearly maintenance costs for a large fleet of battery only buses handy, but on our test fleet that is not 100% in service they're running around 150k dollars per year. This is JUST maintenance costs, that doesn't include all the costs associated with operation, just what it takes to keep it on the road. I also do some work in the trucking and equipment industries and the dollar figures are not the same but the trend is EXACTLY the same.

There are a LOT of drawbacks to EV stuff, but some of those are simply the hurdles of a technology in it's infancy. But in big cities, especially "progressive/left/liberal" cities the push to go EV is too great and it'll happen because the right pressure is being applied

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Here in LA all the buses run on Natural gas. Zero emissions low maintenance costs . I think its more of a eco win than EV.
 


gtx3076

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#15
From a Seattle transit mechanic.

Take for instance the public transit industry. A typical diesel with a Allison or Voith hydraulic automatic powered 40' transit coach. Typical yearly maintenance costs (assuming around a 100-150k mile per year service) will run about 25k dollars if it's a non DPF equipped bus. The SAME bus but in a hybrid costs around 80-100k per year in maintenance costs. Yet they are buying these things in droves and not looking back. It is NOT more environmentally friendly, they typically DO NOT get better fuel mileage, they are NOT more environmentally friendly but it's politically the only direction to go. I don't have accurate yearly maintenance costs for a large fleet of battery only buses handy, but on our test fleet that is not 100% in service they're running around 150k dollars per year. This is JUST maintenance costs, that doesn't include all the costs associated with operation, just what it takes to keep it on the road. I also do some work in the trucking and equipment industries and the dollar figures are not the same but the trend is EXACTLY the same.

There are a LOT of drawbacks to EV stuff, but some of those are simply the hurdles of a technology in it's infancy. But in big cities, especially "progressive/left/liberal" cities the push to go EV is too great and it'll happen because the right pressure is being applied

Sent from my SM-A205U1 using Tapatalk
Honestly, I think society as a whole is moving in the right direction. Fuel combustion has gotten more fuel efficient, and companies are reducing the weight of their vehicles. Really though, the best way to reduce emissions is to simply use less fuel, by driving less overall. Email and telecommuting have helped with that somewhat. Me personally, I love driving, but I hate commuting. Construction and service will always be a transient career though.

If people have serious concerns about emissions, the best thing is simply to drive less, or not at all. When I lived in New Orleans I only used my car to get to work or grocery shopping, otherwise I rode a bicycle.

EV's seem more like an effort to have our cake and eat it. I'd rather we all move in a direction that builds communities that allow people to have decent jobs close to home.
 


Ford ST

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#16
Just don't have kids. Best thing you could ever do for the environment. Of course I don't want kids. Sure we keep making things more efficient, but that doesn't really do any good when you keep adding more people.
There are many ways you can lessen your impact to the environment, I don't see cars as the big problem.
I work in sanitation I go to a landfill at least four days a week. I promise you straws are not filling up the landfill not at all. You know what does fill up the landfill furniture and mattresses. They want to ban straws I don't even like straws by the way, but they are totally cool with people ordering mattresses in boxes that they will probably discard in several years.

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Last edited:

Dpro

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#17
Somewhat less green house emissions than diesel or gas powered, but not zero by a long shot.
Ya I need to edit my post not zero emission but a lot damn cleaner and still more eco than EV I am sorry but from a manufacturing and disposal standpoint EV’s are a lot farther from eco than the ev eco enthusiasts would like to believe.
 


jeffreylyon

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#18
Ya I need to edit my post not zero emission but a lot damn cleaner and still more eco than EV I am sorry but from a manufacturing and disposal standpoint EV’s are a lot farther from eco than the ev eco enthusiasts would like to believe.
Natural gas-powered ICEs emit something like 15% less greenhouse gas than gasoline-powered ICEs. Running an EV “produces” the same about of greenhouse gas as it took to charge it; zero if you charged it from a bunch of solar panels from your roof and a lot if you get your energy from a coal-powered plant

Re. manufacturing, most batteries come from China and mfg efficiency is poor but there are economic reasons for them to get closer to western standards. Disposal has been a theoretical problem b/c EOL EV batteries are just becoming available but now that a supply chain is building so have recycle and downcycle programs.

It’s still early times for EVs and green energy in general but the alternative is not sustainable. A modern ICEV produces something on the order of 1% of the emissions than does a 1960’s era ICEV but is nearing engineering limits. Imagine the energy supply chain and EVs of 60 years from now or, if you prefer for some reason, the state of the climate in 60 years if we don’t make significant changes in our carbon footprint.
 


jeffreylyon

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#19
Just don't have kids. Best thing you could ever do for the environment. Of course I don't want kids. Sure we keep making things more efficient, but that doesn't really do any good when you keep adding more people.
There are many ways you can lessen your impact to the environment, I don't see cars as the big problem.
I work in sanitation I go to a landfill at least four days a week. I promise you straws are not filling up the landfill not at all. You know what does fill up the landfill furniture and mattresses. They want to ban straws I don't even like straws by the way, but they are totally cool with people ordering mattresses in boxes that they will probably discard in several years.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

This. Not so much re. kids but consumerism. Making and moving stuff emits lots of carbon. Remember when we used to fix things instead of tossing them out and buying new?
 


TyphoonFiST

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#20
What needs to be done...Is quit building all these safety features into stuff. Simple use of natural selection by mother nature due to Dumb people. Just like in idiocracy only stupid people are breeding...Where is that Brawndo at I'm thirsty!
 




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