Lets talk Spring Load, Not the usual Spring Rate thread

[the duke]

I have the thicker rear beam and larger front sway bar on my car if I remember right. I think I meant to measure that at one point. I can measure it again to double check.
The 16 Supplement shows the rear beam at 7.5mm and the front bar at 19mm. The 19 Supplement shows 8.5mm and 21mm. That is kinda interesting. Guess they overall softened the springs and stiffened the rear beam to stabilize it in roll. Kinda of a big bar soft springs setup.

It’s the ST200 suspension. Partly ford got shit for now harsh and bouncy the pre200 cars were and they softened the springs for compliance while stiffening the sways and Torsten to keep the car tight. Other reason was Mfg purposes.

never found an answer if the dampers were changed though.

 

[Dialcaliper]

I have the thicker rear beam and larger front sway bar on my car if I remember right. I think I meant to measure that at one point. I can measure it again to double check.
The 16 Supplement shows the rear beam at 7.5mm and the front bar at 19mm. The 19 Supplement shows 8.5mm and 21mm. That is kinda interesting. Guess they overall softened the springs and stiffened the rear beam to stabilize it in roll. Kinda of a big bar soft springs setup.

I think that’s exactly the case. There was apparently a lot of complaining about the ride quality on the older setup, so they went to a softer setup with stiffer bars, and slightly more front bias (less oversteer) than the older setup.

Tasca shows different part numbers (ending in -D/-E vs -F/-G) for the front struts with the same changeover (02/16/2016), but interestingly no difference in the rear shocks, only a single part number for all years

What is weird is that the vehicle applications list shows that the same rear damper is also used on all 16-19 Fiestas, not just the ST (but only the ST for 14-15). The front struts are ST specific for all years

 

[kevinatfms]

I think that’s exactly the case. There was apparently a lot of complaining about the ride quality on the older setup, so they went to a softer setup with stiffer bars, and slightly more front bias (less oversteer) than the older setup.

Tasca shows different part numbers (ending in -D/-E vs -F/-G) for the front struts with the same changeover (02/16/2016), but interestingly no difference in the rear shocks, only a single part number for all years

What is weird is that the vehicle applications list shows that the same rear damper is also used on all 16-19 Fiestas, not just the ST (but only the ST for 14-15). The front struts are ST specific for all years

Rear is listed under "special suspension" specific to the ST for the rear dampers. All other cars use the "sedan" rear shock.

If you look at the descriptions for the shock and spring combos, neither show "hatchback". Ford lists all Fiesta models as sedans, in either 4 door flavor(actual trunk car) versus 5 door(hatchback model).

 

[Fusion Works]

The ST front strut may be a bit shorter or something to gain back some travel after they lowered it. They are probably both made by the same manufacture so that probably isn't the difference driving a different part number.Monroe shows a different part number also.

Do the base Fiestas have the damper on the strut body?

 

[kevinatfms]

The ST front strut may be a bit shorter or something to gain back some travel after they lowered it. They are probably both made by the same manufacture so that probably isn't the difference driving a different part number.Monroe shows a different part number also.

Do the base Fiestas have the damper on the strut body?

They do not.

 

[Fusion Works]

That tab would totally change the part number with no other internal changes.

Having not driven the base Fiesta, does it turn in as fast as our cars stock or is it more soggy and vague?

 

[Fusion Works]

Finally got a moment to swap the suspension.

This was the test suspension. Bilstein B8 Front struts with Suspension Techniques front lower spring. 130lb/in rate. Rear is my coil over collar with 162lb rear springs and my custom valved rear dampers. The ride was better than with my front struts, but the front was WAY too damn low. Very close to the bump stops, very little travel, etc. Shitty setup.

Front was SLAMMED and the rate is too soft.

This is the new setup. Front B8 Strut with stock 16 ST front springs. 170lbs/in crammed onto the Bilstein. Had to bust out the spring compressor to get the spring on. With the ST lowering spring I could just push it down by hand and start the shaft nut.

I am currently running my cold weather tires. 205/45-17, so that throws it off a bit. I think this is probably about right for the street use and maybe track, have to check control arm angles when I align it tomorrow. I should have plenty of shock travel also.
Seems like it raised the car up about 1in in the front over the lowering springs. I have measurements before and after, just left them at the shop. Will update.

Ride quality is better, but no clear traffic on the way home to test the handling.

 

[Fusion Works]

Be nice if I had some fender height measurements from anyone with a stock ST with stock suspension and tire heights or tires that match mine would make the math easier.

 

[M-Sport fan]

This is the new setup. Front B8 Strut with stock 16 ST front springs. 170lbs/in crammed onto the Bilstein. Had to bust out the spring compressor to get the spring on. With the ST lowering spring I could just push it down by hand and start the shaft nut.

This is why I wish that we had a factory ride height, but much higher linear rate strut spring available for our rides.

But, in your opinion, do you think that the not re-valved, off the shelf Bilstein B6/B8 dampers could not handle (or properly damp) any higher spring rate than the (pre-'16) factory 172 lb./in. fronts?

 

[Dialcaliper]

Be nice if I had some fender height measurements from anyone with a stock ST with stock suspension and tire heights or tires that match mine would make the math easier.

No fender heights, but is this useful? Service manual ride height measurements - a little more annoying to measure, but just simple balljoint/control arm measurements from the ground - independent of wheel/tire. Note that the as-delivered factory ride height tolerance is actually pretty sloppy, (+/- 0.5"), but I'd go off the nominal measurement.

 

[the duke]

This is why I wish that we had a factory ride height, but much higher linear rate strut spring available for our rides.

But, in your opinion, do you think that the not re-valved, off the shelf Bilstein B6/B8 dampers could not handle (or properly damp) any higher spring rate than the (pre-'16) factory 172 lb./in. fronts?

Your best bet are the early ST springs.

<----

 

[M-Sport fan]

Your best bet are the early ST springs.

<----

True, but those (when NEW and 'fresh') were the ones which were only 172 in/lb rate, but yes more than the what ~154 in/lb ones on my '16.

 

[Fusion Works]

The ones I have are from an early 16 model. Can't remember David's production date. They measure at 170ish lbs/in.

This is why I wish that we had a factory ride height, but much higher linear rate strut spring available for our rides.

But, in your opinion, do you think that the not re-valved, off the shelf Bilstein B6/B8 dampers could not handle (or properly damp) any higher spring rate than the (pre-'16) factory 172 lb./in. fronts?

I think if you went up to a 200ish lb spring the B6/B8 would be fine. maybe a little underdamped, but not much. There really is nothing wrong with the OE damper from a valving rate situation. Its obviously not as stiff laterally as the inverted damper. The reality is the stock damper isn't really long enough to accommodate a much higher ride height, not enough droop travel. The real answer is a longer inverted damper. You are straying into the custom realm.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The real answer is a longer inverted damper. You are straying into the custom realm.

...or the half the value of the whole car's cost Reiger M-Sport R2 tarmac setup...

 

[Rhys1983]

...or the half the value of the whole car's cost Reiger M-Sport R2 tarmac setup...

This is the set up that I’ve decided on. I’ve checked with M-Sport Poland and Reiger and it doesn’t look like they’re in production any more so I’ve decided to go down the second hand, reconditioned route.
I’ve spoken to a few companies in the UK and asked them to keep any eye out for an immaculate set if they come up.
I’ve been told that a gravel set can be re-shimmed and dropped in travel and effectively be converted to tarmac use and paired with a tarmac spring, but not sure if this is the case?

 

[Fusion Works]

They should be able to modify them. If they are truly based on the 46mm Bilstien Damper body, the shaft can be shortened and the body can be shortened to allow for better travel for a street application.

 

[Rhys1983]

They should be able to modify them. If they are truly based on the 46mm Bilstien Damper body, the shaft can be shortened and the body can be shortened to allow for better travel for a street application.

That’s what I was told by EDSL Sport a company that specialises in fiesta r2 rally cars in the UK.
They have a suspension specialist that they use who can service and re-build the reigers. They were saying that there are a lot more gravel sets available so they could convert these for street application along with fitting tarmac springs.

 

[M-Sport fan]

This is the set up that I’ve decided on. I’ve checked with M-Sport Poland and Reiger and it doesn’t look like they’re in production any more so I’ve decided to go down the second hand, reconditioned route.
I’ve spoken to a few companies in the UK and asked them to keep any eye out for an immaculate set if they come up.
I’ve been told that a gravel set can be re-shimmed and dropped in travel and effectively be converted to tarmac use and paired with a tarmac spring, but not sure if this is the case?

Are the Mk8 R2/Rally 4 suspensions/pickup points that radically different than the Mk7/7.5s, that they do not fit on our rides at all??

Also, there are still a TON of older Mk7/7.5 R2/R2T/Rally 4 Fiestas out there in competition, what do they expect them to do if they destroy their Reigers???

What kind of prices (in USD, pounds, or Euros) are you finding on those reconditioned sets?

 

[Rhys1983]

Are the Mk8 R2/Rally 4 suspensions/pickup points that radically different than the Mk7/7.5s, that they do not fit on our rides at all??

Also, there are still a TON of older Mk7/7.5 R2/R2T/Rally 4 Fiestas out there in competition, what do they expect them to do if they destroy their Reigers???

What kind of prices (in USD, pounds, or Euros) are you finding on those reconditioned sets?

That’s a very good point. Thousands of these older Mk7/7.5 are still used in rallies so you think that they’d still have plenty of R2 reigers to supply.
I’m still living in hope that I can find an immaculate set from somewhere!

 

[Rhys1983]

@Fusion Works So from your testing then would you say a standard pre ‘16 spring would work better on a Bilstein B8 kit than any “lowered” spring?
I’m still looking for used reigers, but in the mean time I’m looking for a set of springs that don’t lower the front of the car too much on the B8’s. So far, the options that I’m thinking of is fitting a 15mm spacer onto my current Eibach springs which sit 25mm lower than standard. This might add a bit of pre-load to the spring and stiffen the front spring slightly and possibly help with the roll centre? Or, I could change the Eibachs for the pre ‘16 original springs. Which one of these options would you recommend and would either effect front suspension droop and handling?
I need some travel as the roads where I live are quite bumpy and uneven with broken tarmac sections. At the moment there is about 15mm gap between the front tyres and the arch. Is this too low? Thanks!