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Preposterous ideas: 300whp stock turbo

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WILKESBORO
#1
Ok I have a, albiet slightly over ambitious, plan to achieve 300whp on stock turbo. It took me a while to decide where to exactly post this, but this is really a post to document my journey; pass or fail.

Now you may be thinking I'm crazy, which don't blame. Now, after I slip on my flame suit I'm gonna tell you I'm going to do this without replacing any of the exhaust or intake parts.

I plan on Dyno verifying, but I do use a lot of vdyno to confirm my tuning and increases.

So where am I now? Just beginning really. I have an AP and a tune from dizzy for E30. Over the next couple of weeks I plan on getting ATR and familiarizing myself with the fiesta platform. Vdyno has me at around 216hp and 300tq. Stock other than the tune.


Now its time to work some magic and free up 84hp I'm a turbo that doesn't have the compressor map to do it.

Also, not with nitrous.
 
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New Castle
#3
I mean, I guess it is possible if you push enough meth or something. But I'd think reliability would be a serious concern at that point. But it isn't my money, so I'm also in to see where this goes [thumb]
 
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#4
Interested.

I think you would need to do a built motor, and be willing to risk blowing the stock turbo.
Building power is a exponentially costly, the higher the power, the more it costs, and the gains are never guaranteed.

At the minimum, new crank, possibly bigger injectors, and a cleaned up head.
 

Dpro

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#5
Interested.

I think you would need to do a built motor, and be willing to risk blowing the stock turbo.
Building power is a exponentially costly, the higher the power, the more it costs, and the gains are never guaranteed. K

At the minimum, new crank, possibly bigger injectors, and a cleaned up head.
Ah no stock internals could handle 300whp there are already forum membesr doing that on stock internals. Would a rebiuld with upgraded internals help in reliability? Of course but it’s not an absolute requirement just for the sake of doing it.

The head is pretty damn good flow wise stock. Fact is the Elephant in the room is the tiny turbo our cars come with stock. They run out of steam in the higher rev band i.e. 5500 rpm up to redline. Now tunes can help this some but in terms of overall power? I don’t think so.
To get 300whp you pretty much have to go upgraded Turbo. Hybrid or Big Turbo, pick your medicine. Also adding port injection helps a lot as there are not a lot of easy ways to make direct injection flow more than it was designed for. There is a reason Focus RS’s come from the factory with port injection added to the 2.3. Also why the new Fiesta ST Mk8 in Euproe has port injection added on the crazy 3 banger as well. A 1.5 liter that puts out bit more HP and TQ than our MK7 ST engines do.

I have owned and driven 300whp RWD cars that wieghed the same as ours. Its crazy quick/fast, we are talking Sport bike acceleration.
Personally I feel our cars with 250-275 wheel HP would be fine. 300whp for cars on the street hmmm.lol

I am interested to see how the OP’s proposal goes.
 
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#6
So the issue is. How do you get the power out of the motor without revving it to 8000?

The internals are good for 3-350, but the head does need a bit of work (based on looking at the head with my pop, whose summer DD is pushing 750 hp)

Concerns:
Can stock turbo push enough air to get that much power without blowing the turbo? Big and Hybrid turbos push more air
Stock cams might not handle the revs properly (valve float).

Either way I'm interested. But I already have a Gen2 GTX2860R sitting around waiting for a donor block /built motor... But If I can hit 300HP on the stock in the mean time.. HMMMM [popcorn][popcorn][popcorn]
 

HBEcoBeaST

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#7
What is your plan of attack and any specific reasons for not changing the turbo? I'm rooting for you, but reality is well... Reality.

I can't even think of a parts list to achieve 300whp that doesn't include a turbo, nitrous or motor swap.

Even with a built motor, cams, ported heads and fuel system upgrade, 300whp on the stock turbo isn't going to happen. You need more air and fuel into the motor and the oem turbo is providing the most air it can if you're already tuned. Adding more fuel will only help so much. The OEM turbo is the limiting factor. It can only flow so much air regardless what parts are used before and after it.



Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

Dpro

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#9
So the issue is. How do you get the power out of the motor without revving it to 8000?

The internals are good for 3-350, but the head does need a bit of work (based on looking at the head with my pop, whose summer DD is pushing 750 hp)

Concerns:
Can stock turbo push enough air to get that much power without blowing the turbo? Big and Hybrid turbos push more air
Stock cams might not handle the revs properly (valve float).

Either way I'm interested. But I already have a Gen2 GTX2860R sitting around waiting for a donor block /built motor... But If I can hit 300HP on the stock in the mean time.. HMMMM [popcorn][popcorn][popcorn]
I don’t think anyone is trying to rev these engines to 8k. Lol . There are guys already getting 300whp on stock internals several x47 guys, another just did it with a Mountune MRX which is a Garett GT2554 modded.
Again like i already mentioned the stock turbo just is not going to breath enough to hit that goal. So yes a bigger turbo or hybrid turbo is required IMO.

As for the other stuff well that takes us back to the reliability department. How reliable you want it to be.
The big thing about turbo engines is your air fuel ratio. Get that wrong and engine will go boom. Seen it many times on different engines that where either factory turbo or designed turbo friendly to start.

Now upgraded pistons and rods helps but a key thing to remember is anytime you take an engine rated to a specific HP and designed for reliability and start pushing numbers larger even with stronger internals you most likely will always shorten the life of the engine.
Remember we are talking 1.6 liters here. Ford has already done a pretty spectacular job with the numbers stock but it has been proven it can do more and still maintain a decent amount of reliability. Though I do feel once your shooting above 300 your entering shorter engine life territory. IMO .

There is a reason race car engines are rebuilt quite often. With extreme HP comes short longevity.

Oh by the why what is the wieght of your dads 750hp daily? Sounds fricken crazy.
 
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#10
I don’t think anyone is trying to rev these engines to 8k. Lol . There are guys already getting 300whp on stock internals several x47 guys, another just did it with a Mountune MRX which is a Garett GT2554 modded.
Again like i already mentioned the stock turbo just is not going to breath enough to hit that goal. So yes a bigger turbo or hybrid turbo is required IMO.

As for the other stuff well that takes us back to the reliability department. How reliable you want it to be.
The big thing about turbo engines is your air fuel ratio. Get that wrong and engine will go boom. Seen it many times on different engines that where either factory turbo or designed turbo friendly to start.

Now upgraded pistons and rods helps but a key thing to remember is anytime you take an engine rated to a specific HP and designed for reliability and start pushing numbers larger even with stronger internals you most likely will always shorten the life of the engine.
Remember we are talking 1.6 liters here. Ford has already done a pretty spectacular job with the numbers stock but it has been proven it can do more and still maintain a decent amount of reliability. Though I do feel once your shooting above 300 your entering shorter engine life territory. IMO .

There is a reason race car engines are rebuilt quite often. With extreme HP comes short longevity.

Oh by the why what is the weight of your dads 750hp daily? Sounds fricken crazy.
The mountune V4 cams support a redline of 8000
https://www.mountuneusa.com/mountune-Camshaft-set-Ford-1-6L-EcoBoost-V4-p/6064-cs4-aa.htm

It's a 51 Chevy half ton with a vortec 4200 (Straight six from the trailblazer) and a turbo the size of the fiesta :p

Here's a video from way back when. The setup has changed a fair amount (WAAAAAAAY bigger injectors)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn6Do9gCbRA
 
OP
N
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WILKESBORO
Thread Starter #12
That's a little more replies than I was expecting. I have a plan. It involves a lot of 100 percent pre turbo methanol to push the compressor map right.

I don't even plan on upgrading the fmic. I haven't decided or settled on how much meth yet, but the actual placements I have. I plan on running 1 nozzle preturbo and another nozzle pre fmic and another post fmic. Sorry for the shitty punctuation but I'm limited on time and I'm on my cell phone.

But meth will drastically increase the capability of the stock turbo. The question is, how much? And will it be enough to obtain the lofty goal.


I'm predicting the stock turbo will need to achieve 33 or 34psi maybe 35psi to make it possible. What are the rates for the stock valve springs? Surely they could handle another 8 to 10psi.
 
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#15
Negative. That removes the challenge.
Can you please explain the theory behind methanol adding ~80hp on a stock turbo?

I am pretty sure the turbo inlet size will not support 300 "wheel" horse power unless you are a wizard. A stock k04 sized turbo barely gets north of 300hp with methanol and it has a bigger inlet.
 
OP
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Thread Starter #19
Ha yeah I come bearing crazy from the Mazdaspeed world. Still part of that world. Still have my speed. Still going crazy with it(900-1000hp build in progress). In fact I had a similar challenge for my speed. 500whp without aux fueling. Let me tell you that caused a ruckus. Especially when results were produced 526hp without aux. people were content with only 380hp before.

Pre turbo meth should help quite a bit. 70 or so hp Worth? We shall find out. The pre and post fmic meth nozzles should help with cooling from lack of upgraded fmic and fueling since I'll also be running ethanol. I just want to do something different while my speed is completed. Then I can start going crazy with this one.
 

Dpro

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#20
The mountune V4 cams support a redline of 8000
https://www.mountuneusa.com/mountune-Camshaft-set-Ford-1-6L-EcoBoost-V4-p/6064-cs4-aa.htm

It's a 51 Chevy half ton with a vortec 4200 (Straight six from the trailblazer) and a turbo the size of the fiesta :p

Here's a video from way back when. The setup has changed a fair amount (WAAAAAAAY bigger injectors)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn6Do9gCbRA

Ya those cams are for a race engine. Interesting truck your dad has.

This thread is getting crazy gotta make some popcorn.
 

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