Tapping/knocking noise after start up

[Nico1709]

Hello everybody,

my car recently started making a weird tapping noise that only lasts like 10 seconds after you start it. When you rev it slightly it is very noticeable but only while the RPMs increase, when they climb back down you can't hear anything out of the ordinary.
Also, if the car has been running a bit and you turn it off and on again it doesn't make that noise, but it appears again if the car has been sitting for 1h+.
I tried starting it with the oil filler cap open and it sounds like it's coming from somewhere in the head.
I'm pretty sure it is not the injectors as I got to check out a friend's FiST and his car only makes the regular DI ticking.
Do you guys think it's a bad tappet or do you have any other ideas as to what it could be.
My car was built in 01/2017 and only has around 63k km on it.

Thanks for any help

 

[M-Sport fan]

Do you still have the rev limiter set to the factory spec limit?

If not, have you pushed the revs up past 7300 frequently/often?
Are you using the proper spec/Ford approved oil filter?

I do not know how one checks the oil pump in these engines without removing them (or even oil pressure for that matter), but I would look into that as well.

What is the power/drive train warranty in Europe (years/mileage/kilometer-age)?

 

[Nico1709]

Engine wise the car is almost completely stock. It only has a TS Kompact EM VR2, an airfilter and intake hose while still running the stock tune. I have also never overreved it while downshifting. The oil filter is a MANN-FILTER W7008 (it is a pretty reputable brand in Europe) and it hasn't been giving me any problems these last 3 months since the oil change before the noise appeared, but I have thought about the anti-drain back valve being broken for whatever reason.
I'm not sure if we get a separate power train warranty in Europe/Germany. As far as I know we only get 2 years of factory warranty without any mileage restriction.
How would one check the oil pressure in these engines? I have tried logging it with FORScan, but I can't find it.

 

[M-Sport fan]

You may have to install a sensor/sender (like threaded into a thin sandwich plate under the filter) and an aftermarket oil pressure gauge.

I am not sure if it is a 'reported PID' in these cars or not, but something has to trigger a light on the dash for low/lost oil pressure.

Anyone??

 

[scooter123]

Our engine are cam on bucket designs, no lifter (tappet) involved at all. A poorly adjusted valve could be a cause of your noise, perhaps someone at the factory got the valve lash wrong when the engine was built and wear has revealed that. Bad news here is you'll have to pull the valve cover and have the engine running to find the specific valve if that is a problem. Setting valve lash on these engines also requires replacing the cup with one ground to the correct specific lash. Not something for a home mechanic to do. One suspect for that noise could be a leak at the exhaust manifold. Here in the US the Jeep TJ with a 4 cylinder was notorious for an exhaust leak at the #4 cylinder and that ticking sounded just like a bad valve lifter. In checking for "lifter tick" and 1.5 ecoboost I got a ticking purge valve video so that's another place to look. Also saw another video showing a lifter tick sound coming from the high pressure fuel pump on a 1.5 ecoboost in a Ford Fusion. I would suggest purchasing or borrowing a true Mechanics Stethoscope and doing some checking to determine the exact source of your noise.

I would also advise you to read your owners manual and determine the exact terms of your warranty. Here in the US the powertrain warranty is 6 years or 60,000 (95,560 km) miles. BTW, full car warranty is 36,000 (57936 km) miles. I would sort of suspect your powertrain warranty is similar.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Could the HPFP cam bucket be worn out at only 38K miles??

 

[Nico1709]

I have heard that people recommend changing the HPFP cam bucket at 30k/40k miles, but they usually don't show any sign of pitting and don't make any noise. FRP is consistent at around 150bar/2175psi during WOT. I'll check out the purge valve and exhaust manifold tomorrow. Maybe the additional vibrations from the RMM caused the manifold to crack or one the studs to break.

 

[Nico1709]

So I checked the manifold and it seems to be fine and the purge valve doesn't do anything while the noise audible. The purge valve only starts ticking once the car is past its cold start phase, but the noise is quite similar to the noise I'm chasing. Are there any other valves I could check? Could it also be something with the vacuum pump on the right side of the head or the high pressure fuel pump other than the cam bucket?

 

[CSM]

So I checked the manifold and it seems to be fine and the purge valve doesn't do anything while the noise audible. The purge valve only starts ticking once the car is past its cold start phase, but the noise is quite similar to the noise I'm chasing. Are there any other valves I could check? Could it also be something with the vacuum pump on the right side of the head or the high pressure fuel pump other than the cam bucket?

Any updates? I'm noticing my fiesta does this too. Goes away after car is fully warm and car drives fine other than the noise when super cold out

 

[M-Sport fan]

Could the overly viscous COLD oil just not be getting up into the head sufficiently to lube the (solid??) flat VALVE tappets, until it warms up, hence the loud(er) noise?

 

[Nico1709]

Any updates? I'm noticing my fiesta does this too. Goes away after car is fully warm and car drives fine other than the noise when super cold out

I haven't been able to identify where the noise comes from exactly and since it's not acting weird and the data logs seem fine I just said fuck it. The car has been running without problems and I haven't noticed any metal shavings or similar in the oil. Btw I'm running 5W30 oil and it doesn't get super cold where I live, so it's probably not the oil taking too long to get to the head.

 

[CSM]

So after consulting with a friend who has the same issue, and speaking to my mechanic, we think it's an exhaust leak at the manifold that only shows up at extremely cold temps (below freezing). Once everything comes up to temp, the leak seals and it goes away.

I sent an oil sample for analysis to make sure nothing was being chewed up internally. Probably won't be able to inspect manifold until next spring

 

[M-Sport fan]

I haven't been able to identify where the noise comes from exactly and since it's not acting weird and the data logs seem fine I just said fuck it. The car has been running without problems and I haven't noticed any metal shavings or similar in the oil. Btw I'm running 5W30 oil and it doesn't get super cold where I live, so it's probably not the oil taking too long to get to the head.

Kind of , but just out of curiosity, which brand/type of 5W-30 are you using?

 

[Nico1709]

Kind of , but just out of curiosity, which brand/type of 5W-30 are you using?

I'm running Motul 8100 Eco-Nergy 5W30. Probably not the best oil for a ST but that's what my mechanic uses. I plan on swapping to a different oil next service. Any recommendations?

 

[Nico1709]

So after consulting with a friend who has the same issue, and speaking to my mechanic, we think it's an exhaust leak at the manifold that only shows up at extremely cold temps (below freezing). Once everything comes up to temp, the leak seals and it goes away.

I sent an oil sample for analysis to make sure nothing was being chewed up internally. Probably won't be able to inspect manifold until next spring

Interesting, mine started doing it in the middle of summer so it wasn't cold but maybe I should take another look. I think mine started a couple days after I did a (mostly relaxed) lap on the Nürburgring. Maybe that was already too much for the manifold.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm running Motul 8100 Eco-Nergy 5W30. Probably not the best oil for a ST but that's what my mechanic uses. I plan on swapping to a different oil next service. Any recommendations?

I am using the Ravenol DXG 5W-30, made right in your country.

It checks all of the boxes for me (LSPI prevention, superior anti-wear/anti-friction additive package, top tier bases stocks, low volatility, fairly high TBN {total base number}, and not an overly too much higher than most 5W-20's HTHSV {high temperature, high shear viscosity}), except for carrying the exact/specific Ford USDM oil spec (just like the Motul you are using), but it does have most of the other Ford specs listed on the bottle.

Your username would not have anything to do with the late, great female singer from your land, correct??

 

[Nico1709]

I am using the Ravenol DXG 5W-30, made right in your country.

It checks all of the boxes for me (LSPI prevention, superior anti-wear/anti-friction additive package, top tier bases stocks, low volatility, fairly high TBN {total base number}, and not an overly too much higher than most 5W-20's HTHSV {high temperature, high shear viscosity}), except for carrying the exact/specific Ford USDM oil spec (just like the Motul you are using), but it does have most of the other Ford specs listed on the bottle.

Your username would not have anything to do with the late, great female singer from your land, correct??

Nah, it's just my name + birthdate lol