Whoosh BBK

[Ludeem1]

Anyone know if I need a spacer for Rota titans 17x8?

 

[dhminer]

Having replacements is great unless the base kit is made in a factory that has zero quality control over the production process. Can you confirm that they are AP racing or TEI based calipers?

Quick google search (not sure why I was too lazy until now) shows that these are almost definitely made by TEI unless someone has gone great lengths to texture map Whoosh branding on the TEI image, which would be extremely absurd.

TEI have lots of internet hate on other forums, but most of it based on the price point rather than firsthand experience. Firsthand experience I’ve read on this forum is favorable, and I trust Ron to take care of things should they go awry. I’m not concerned with them being unsafe at all. I have the 330mm kit that I’ll install in the spring and report back.

Images from Whoosh and from TEI, for reference. They’re the same image with different texture mapping on the calipers.

 

[Dpro]

I am running the 300mm ones and they work great they are also lighter than the stock brakes by a considerable amount. My buddy weighed them before I bought them off him. I am thinking he said like 3lbs per side but it my have been 7lb. All I know is it was quite noticeable.

 

[LilPartyBox]

Quick google search (not sure why I was too lazy until now) shows that these are almost definitely made by TEI unless someone has gone great lengths to texture map Whoosh branding on the TEI image, which would be extremely absurd.

TEI have lots of internet hate on other forums, but most of it based on the price point rather than firsthand experience. Firsthand experience I’ve read on this forum is favorable, and I trust Ron to take care of things should they go awry. I’m not concerned with them being unsafe at all. I have the 330mm kit that I’ll install in the spring and report back.

Images from Whoosh and from TEI, for reference. They’re the same image with different texture mapping on the calipers.

View attachment 52761 View attachment 52762

I was never convinced they were AP. I searched their whole catalog and NOTHING looks like the whoosh kit. Now TEI is spitting image! And Ron just glosses over this like it's some coincidence. " Confirmed whoosh"??? Lmao. Literally a carbon copy. Next he'll say TEI stole his image. Hey, maybe they did....???? Who knows? Anything is possible

But still so glad I didn't pull the trigger. These are fixed caliper brakes for half what reputable kits cost and what some rotors cost! Corners HAD to be cut somewhere to meet that price point for a WHOLE kit. I don't cut corners on braking mods...still eyeing Stoptech.

I'm also looking hard at the oem Renault Clio Brembo conversion kits. At least I'll know where the parts for my life saving equipment is sourced! lol

You say Ron will take care of any issues and I don't doubt that at all but...the end of this sentence will be grim so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Dpro]

I was never convinced they were AP. I searched their whole catalog and NOTHING looks like the whoosh kit. Now TEI is spitting image! And Ron just glosses over this like it's some coincidence. " Confirmed whoosh"??? Lmao. Literally a carbon copy. Next he'll say TEI stole his image. Hey, maybe they did....???? Who knows? Anything is possible

But still so glad I didn't pull the trigger. These are fixed caliper brakes for half what reputable kits cost and what some rotors cost! Corners HAD to be cut somewhere to meet that price point for a WHOLE kit. I don't cut corners on braking mods...still eyeing Stoptech.

I'm also looking hard at the oem Renault Clio Brembo conversion kits. At least I'll know where the parts for my life saving equipment is sourced! lol

You say Ron will take care of any issues and I don't doubt that at all but...the end of this sentence will be grim so I'll just leave it at that.

This is assumption is purely speculative and not base on any research. I am only calling you out on it because Ron has been selling these brakes by the ton and no one has reported a problem for several years I might add.

I got a insane deal on mine so it was a no brainer as my friend jumped way up the scale to EBC brakes .

I have dealt with brake calipers for years having been in the 240sx world where swapping calipers out is quite common , aka Sentra SER Brembo’s, Z32 Calipers aluminum and steel, GTR Calipers have use all of the above sold and mounted them also seen the likes of Rotara , plus a few other Taiwanese brands. As well as the Japanese brands like ProjectMu in other words I have enough experience with brake calipers to be able to analyze a set before putting them on.

These calipers are fine . They are inexpensive because A: they do not have a name brand big brake name on them amd B . Because ya they are made overseas. News alert a lot of the big name brands are now manufactured overseas as well. AKA China , it does not automatically make them garbage .
In fact ya Chinese labor costs way lower means wholesale price lower , retail price lower. Oh and ya allows more room for big brake company of known name to maintain profit levels they used to make back in the day when they were making them in their home countries.



I get your skepticism and wish to go with trusted names for the sake of trusted names but your comments should stop there , but…. they did not instead you started expressing doubt about build quality without proof.
I do not normally go off like this but ya your comments warranted it and no it has nothing to do with Championing Ron it purely is from experience and several thousand miles of running the brakes currently.

 

[kevinatfms]

I have dealt with brake calipers for years having been in the 240sx world where swapping calipers out is quite common , aka Sentra SER Brembo’s, Z32 Calipers aluminum and steel, GTR Calipers have use all of the above sold and mounted them also seen the likes of Rotara , plus a few other Taiwanese brands. As well as the Japanese brands like ProjectMu in other words I have enough experience with brake calipers to be able to analyze a set before putting them on.

These calipers are fine . They are inexpensive because A: they do not have a name brand big brake name on them amd B . Because ya they are made overseas. News alert a lot of the big name brands are now manufactured overseas as well. AKA China , it does not automatically make them garbage .
In fact ya Chinese labor costs way lower means wholesale price lower , retail price lower. Oh and ya allows more room for big brake company of known name to maintain profit levels they used to make back in the day when they were making them in their home countries.

I get your skepticism and wish to go with trusted names for the sake of trusted names but your comments should stop there, but…. they did not instead you started expressing doubt about build quality without proof.
I do not normally go off like this but ya your comments warranted it and no it has nothing to do with Championing Ron it purely is from experience and several thousand miles of running the brakes currently.

As someone who spent years in the QA/QC programs at a few manufacturers i can say without a doubt there is a large reason for the price increase and its quality control related.

Extra QC checks during manufacturing processes are critical to ensure the caliper block(s), pistons, seals and such are within minimum and maximum tolerances for the conditions performance brake systems will encounter.

 

[dhminer]

As someone who spent years in the QA/QC programs at a few manufacturers i can say without a doubt there is a large reason for the price increase and its quality control related.

Extra QC checks during manufacturing processes are critical to ensure the caliper block(s), pistons, seals and such are within minimum and maximum tolerances for the conditions performance brake systems will encounter.

QC is expensive indeed. A good manufacturer will figure out how to poke yoke their process and thus eliminate the need for inspections.

 

[esp_martin]

As someone who spent years in the QA/QC programs at a few manufacturers i can say without a doubt there is a large reason for the price increase and its quality control related.

Extra QC checks during manufacturing processes are critical to ensure the caliper block(s), pistons, seals and such are within minimum and maximum tolerances for the conditions performance brake systems will encounter.

As someone who worked in Process/Plant/Quality and now Systems Engineering, you're not at all wrong. But A LOT of that money is in the root cause analysis of early productions. I would 100% agree if this was a new product or in the early years of release or if the production line had to integrate new machines/processes. But at this point at this late in the production cycle I think we're allowed a few assumptions that the differences between a Whoosh BBK and bigger name brand kits probably have similar suppliers who are held to the same standards. The difference in assembly can be argued to be smaller now then when the product was first introduced.

Definitely agree with everything in your post though. Just comes down to what a buyer's level of comfort comes down to but I agree with @Dpro that some poster(s) are getting pretty bold with their assumptions and running them around as fact.

 

[kevinatfms]

As someone who worked in Process/Plant/Quality and now Systems Engineering, you're not at all wrong. But A LOT of that money is in the root cause analysis of early productions. I would 100% agree if this was a new product or in the early years of release or if the production line had to integrate new machines/processes. But at this point at this late in the production cycle I think we're allowed a few assumptions that the differences between a Whoosh BBK and bigger name brand kits probably have similar suppliers who are held to the same standards. The difference in assembly can be argued to be smaller now then when the product was first introduced.

Definitely agree with everything in your post though. Just comes down to what a buyer's level of comfort comes down to but I agree with @Dpro that some poster(s) are getting pretty bold with their assumptions and running them around as fact.

If TEI has an ISO certification or similar that shows quality and production standards are being met then i agree with you.

If not, then i don't.

No governing agency or standards commission to adhere to is a recipe for disaster. These companies could source a piston seal from just about anywhere while a company like Brembo, AP, Wilwood...etc would require the seal company to pass a certain amount of QC process checks before accepting the seals for sale showing that the seal can handle the min/max. Those extra checks are one of the biggest costs associated with production.

Again, never heard of TEI. They have little to no information on their website that shows any quality checks are being completed. If they produce 100 brake kits and 10% have seal failures due to zero quality checks at the manufacturing hub then that is a serious breach of ethics. I dont want to be one of the 10% with an issue as i track the car at 100+mph speeds. Failure at that speed will not end well.

https://www.teiracing.com/quality.html
That is not confidence inspiring....

Wilwood is ISO9000.
https://wilwood.com/About/AboutUs

Brembo is well.....Brembo. OE to nearly any performance car these days. It more than speaks for itself.

 

[sonicmn]

https://www.teiracing.com/quality.html
That is not confidence inspiring....

Well that's actually a pretty funny "quality" page... nice find!

"Here are some pics of our products and our trademark certificate... hope you like em!"

They very well may make nice brake assemblies, but I can totally understand the hesitation with that.

 

[esp_martin]

If TEI has an ISO certification or similar that shows quality and production standards are being met then i agree with you.

If not, then i don't.

No governing agency or standards commission to adhere to is a recipe for disaster. These companies could source a piston seal from just about anywhere while a company like Brembo, AP, Wilwood...etc would require the seal company to pass a certain amount of QC process checks before accepting the seals for sale showing that the seal can handle the min/max. Those extra checks are one of the biggest costs associated with production.

Again, never heard of TEI. They have little to no information on their website that shows any quality checks are being completed. If they produce 100 brake kits and 10% have seal failures due to zero quality checks at the manufacturing hub then that is a serious breach of ethics. I dont want to be one of the 10% with an issue as i track the car at 100+mph speeds. Failure at that speed will not end well.


https://www.teiracing.com/quality.html
That is not confidence inspiring....

Wilwood is ISO9000.
https://wilwood.com/About/AboutUs

Brembo is well.....Brembo. OE to nearly any performance car these days. It more than speaks for itself.

I'll repeat that I 100% agree with you and if the company does not adhere to ISO standards, once again, I completely agree with you.

As a Chinese company that doesn't seem to have a stateside presence I am not putting too much stock in their English-language website. That said, if I were one of those companies/wholesalers who did try to work with TEI on manufacturing my BBK, I would definitely demand all that documentation.

edit: for those who don't know about "The Great Chinese Firewall" non-Hong Kong based Chinese companies have to maintain a whole different website/server/etc outside of mainland China. TEI most likely isn't putting too much stock in theirs. I'm not trying to go to bat for TEI here, even if they gave me a set for free I'm not sure I'd take them. Just trying to help out with info where I can.

 

[LilPartyBox]

This is assumption is purely speculative and not base on any research. I am only calling you out on it because Ron has been selling these brakes by the ton and no one has reported a problem for several years I might add.

I got a insane deal on mine so it was a no brainer as my friend jumped way up the scale to EBC brakes .

I have dealt with brake calipers for years having been in the 240sx world where swapping calipers out is quite common , aka Sentra SER Brembo’s, Z32 Calipers aluminum and steel, GTR Calipers have use all of the above sold and mounted them also seen the likes of Rotara , plus a few other Taiwanese brands. As well as the Japanese brands like ProjectMu in other words I have enough experience with brake calipers to be able to analyze a set before putting them on.

These calipers are fine . They are inexpensive because A: they do not have a name brand big brake name on them amd B . Because ya they are made overseas. News alert a lot of the big name brands are now manufactured overseas as well. AKA China , it does not automatically make them garbage .
In fact ya Chinese labor costs way lower means wholesale price lower , retail price lower. Oh and ya allows more room for big brake company of known name to maintain profit levels they used to make back in the day when they were making them in their home countries.



I get your skepticism and wish to go with trusted names for the sake of trusted names but your comments should stop there , but…. they did not instead you started expressing doubt about build quality without proof.
I do not normally go off like this but ya your comments warranted it and no it has nothing to do with Championing Ron it purely is from experience and several thousand miles of running the brakes currently.

You are correct but my assumptions are absolutely warranted. I am speculating about a part that if it were to fail, I may die and/or hurt others. We can all agree that in some instances you MAY get what you pay for. It's why I splurge for Milwaukee Impact ($350) and not Hercules (180). But if you were to post about buying a Hercules impact i wouldn't flinch. Your life isn't in the hands of an impact wrench. I went cheap with the 1st LEDs for my reps and one of them went out while i was whipping around a twisty road at night. My first thought - after i shit myself - was you get what you pay for. lol

Like headlights, this is an instance where reward does NOT outweigh risk. I'm the first to say China doesn't automatically mean crap, AT ALL. So much of what we consume is made there. It would be foolish to condemn everything outright. The word "China" wasn't even in my post. I'm stuck on price point, not country of origin, and the startling lack of info. These are brakes for a hot hatch that many of us drive with a purpose. Not cutting that corner. You and others can choose too. That's your right. As such, it is my right to place doubt on a part that keeps me alive but is priced wildly below market with no real info.

Again, I concede that I'm assuming corners were cut to meet the price point. It may take years of winter/summer cycles to reveal itself or not. Those are dice i won't roll. The proof you speak of will arrive with someone getting hurt. Let's hope I NEVER get any proof. But we're talking MONEY vs LIFE. I'll assume all I want! LoL I run MRs coils on my car. At the time they were less than the Bilstein's and KWs of the world, but I went with them anyway cuz i liked what I read. I don't like what I'm reading about TEI. Granted it's mostly conjecture but again, these are f'in brakes we're talking about here. I'd never get it outta my head if I ran these. I definitely wouldn't let my wife or daughter drive it anymore!

I too have tons of experience with brake mods (closing in on 50 over here) and i can say, with all modesty, i cannot look at a caliper to decide if the metallurgy is good. Or if the seals are inferior. Or if the bolts aren't torqued. Or the braided lines legit. If your eyes are that well trained then good for you. Or maybe it's a case of defending what you bought, which is totally understandable. But liking your purchase doesn't qualify you as an engineer. A few thousand miles doesn't make for a QC test. So, like mine, it's fair to say your own assumptions about quality are also dubious.

And why won't Ron admit it? The pics are IDENTICAL lmaooo. The fact that he won't speaks volumes. Maybe HE thinks China = crap? Can't sully the rep of his rebranded brakes? Or are we to believe the Whoosh empire has an entire braking R&D dept under their vast umbrella of companies? Whatever the reason, bad form. If he were to at least confirm the Whoosh empire has an ISO cert in the country of origin, I'd buy them tomorrow! But nothing..."Confirmed our kit is whoosh brand..." WTF? That's all we get? For a literal life or death part?

Not trying to pick a fight with him but as a community we have to raise the standard we hold our resellers to. Especially when are lives are potentially at risk. Banging around TEI's pitiful site isn't very confidence inspiring. And a reseller denying any relation isn't very confidence inspiring either.
Neither is Ron's description of the kit LMFAO

• Perfectly uniform thickness of the braking surface
• Extremely precise tolerances

Well then....all my doubts erased if they're Perfectly uniform and Extremely precise. Nothing to see here.

I would ignore any doubts I had for other parts of my car, like the "Whoosh" radiator I plan to buy at some point, but not brakes. That's just irresponsible for myself, my family, and those I share the road with...

If TEI has an ISO certification or similar that shows quality and production standards are being met then i agree with you.

If not, then i don't.

No governing agency or standards commission to adhere to is a recipe for disaster. These companies could source a piston seal from just about anywhere while a company like Brembo, AP, Wilwood...etc would require the seal company to pass a certain amount of QC process checks before accepting the seals for sale showing that the seal can handle the min/max. Those extra checks are one of the biggest costs associated with production.

Again, never heard of TEI. They have little to no information on their website that shows any quality checks are being completed. If they produce 100 brake kits and 10% have seal failures due to zero quality checks at the manufacturing hub then that is a serious breach of ethics. I dont want to be one of the 10% with an issue as i track the car at 100+mph speeds. Failure at that speed will not end well.

https://www.teiracing.com/quality.html
That is not confidence inspiring....

Wilwood is ISO9000.
https://wilwood.com/About/AboutUs

Brembo is well.....Brembo. OE to nearly any performance car these days. It more than speaks for itself.

Exactly!!! This is too important a part to save a few bucks on. A crooked scan of some random doc is what TEI offers as proof of some cert they refer to as "Trademark" LOL. The "Service" and "History" sections of the site aren't even filled in. I emailed them 2 days ago. I don't expect to hear back but if I'll post it. I think it's safe to assume this company isn't where I'm gonna place my life. I sincerely hope for all who run these that I'm just being overly cautious.

 

[esp_martin]

My guy, if you honestly think any company that rebrands their stuff is gonna tell you what they're rebranding, you're on another planet.

I'm agreeing with all your concerns and how they need to addressed if anyone wants to put their dollar down. But planting your flag on the "WHOOSH NEEDS TO TELL US HIS SUPPLIER" is kinda outrageous. Do you walk into Costco and demand they give up their rebranded Kirkland providers or forever throw shade on their name? (edit: i'll give you the shampoo/handwash generics but I'm pretty sure they're required to by weird aisle placement contracts they have with big box stores AKA you get to say what generic this is of and we get prime shelf placement. there, i've covered my ass)

A lot of times guys like Whoosh are contractually obligated to not reveal who their supplier is and you're just flying right past that to throw all kinds of shade at the company.

Again, agreeing with *all* of your concerns but I don't understand the mud slinging.

 

[LilPartyBox]

My guy, if you honestly think any company that rebrands their stuff is gonna tell you what they're rebranding, you're on another planet.

I'm agreeing with all your concerns and how they need to addressed if anyone wants to put their dollar down. But planting your flag on the "WHOOSH NEEDS TO TELL US HIS SUPPLIER" is kinda outrageous. Do you walk into Costco and demand they give up their rebranded Kirkland providers or forever throw shade on their name? (edit: i'll give you the shampoo/handwash generics but I'm pretty sure they're required to by weird aisle placement contracts they have with big box stores AKA you get to say what generic this is of and we get prime shelf placement. there, i've covered my ass)

A lot of times guys like Whoosh are contractually obligated to not reveal who their supplier is and you're just flying right past that to throw all kinds of shade at the company.

Again, agreeing with *all* of your concerns but I don't understand the mud slinging.

I knew this was coming. I assure you I'm on planet earth. I'm well aware of modern economics and the restrictions some businesses are forced to work under. Companies can hide behind reseller agreements all they want. And when prudent, i don't deal with them. Tons of things we buy are relabeled and pushed out. Ryobi relabeled craftsman power tools for years. But I'm not dead if my power tool fails so i didn't care. (i keep referencing power tools for some reason lol)

In this very, very specific instance, i care. And so should anyone looking to put an unknown BBK on their car. And a reseller should care too. Or at the very least provide some basic info. What are the calipers made of? Won't say. What are the rotor hats made of? Won't say. Is ANY of this ISO certified or overseen by any governing body? WON'T SAY. Is there contractual obligation to keep customers completely in the dark at the expense of safety? Common sense? And if that IS the contractual obligation he's working under....well you can decide for yourself where a business's priorities should rest. If this is a TEI kit and he knows they don't have any certs on this kit whatsoever, then yea, i'm gonna wanna know that. But he won't say...ya know, contract. If you indeed agree with my concerns, then you'd want a reseller to assuage those concerns. I think it's ok to sling a lil mud. It is a matter of life and death after all.

I think Ron has genuinely done some GREAT things for our community and i will continue to throw money at Whoosh. But this is unacceptable, imo. And it's ok that it be pointed out. This idea that a reseller should be immune from valid scrutiny is a slippery slope. Every forum I've been on, I have been on this unpopular side of the argument. I'll never understand it. But again, to each their own. I really do hope these kits are amazing and everyone remains safe.

 

[esp_martin]

you keep sidestepping the fact I'm agreeing with everything you're saying about how you're not comfortable with the lack of available certifications and parts lists for the whoosh BBK and that is why you won't buy the product.

no one on this thread is disagreeing with you on that.

we are disagreeing with you on your assumptions after that. if you had just stopped at, "i would never buy a brake kit from a company that doesn't provide ISO certs or a parts list" i think you woulda earned all our respect.

but ya kept going and now we're here.

edit: and for whatever it's worth, i don't ever plan on going big brake kit for my Fiesta ST. i'll find all the other ways to increase stopping/decrease brake fade without being forced to slap wheel spacers on my ride/introduce another element to the car that Dearborn never intended (not that i'm judging anyone who does, cause i'm not)

 

[Dpro]

you keep sidestepping the fact I'm agreeing with everything you're saying about how you're not comfortable with the lack of available certifications and parts lists for the whoosh BBK and that is why you won't buy the product.

no one on this thread is disagreeing with you on that.

we are disagreeing with you on your assumptions after that. if you had just stopped at, "i would never buy a brake kit from a company that doesn't provide ISO certs or a parts list" i think you woulda earned all our respect.

but ya kept going and now we're here.

edit: and for whatever it's worth, i don't ever plan on going big brake kit for my Fiesta ST. i'll find all the other ways to increase stopping/decrease brake fade without being forced to slap wheel spacers on my ride/introduce another element to the car that Dearborn never intended (not that i'm judging anyone who does, cause i'm not)

I respect this and agree on the most part. Though using iso9000 , 9001, 9002 as some proof of quality control is slightly on the I lack engineering knowledge side. ISO is strictly a manfacturing spec and does not quantify quality control.

In fact Rota Wheels have ISO9001 spec for years it has not kept them from breaking and breaking catastrophically on many occasions. where is the so called quality control lilpartybox is claiming it represents . It’s not their because iso is not a quality control spec it’s a manufacturing spec that people like to lean on to signify quality control i.e. somewhat of a fallacy with how people interpret it.

It‘s actually pretty well documented on the web and even got the joking catch phrase friends don’t let friends run Rota’s. Yet Miata guys track Rota’s constantly. High end wheels tend to bend without breaking and just go out of round.

If you want to use iso to make sure a product is safe you would rule out a lot small company’s like. Pierce motorsports for instance , a lot of small performance manufacturers make great parts that are precision cnc’s to spect but are not iso 9000 .

Plus a lot of suspension manufacturers including MeisterR which you( as do I as well) run lilpartybox are not iso9000 certified! oops better go take off your coilovers right now they are not iso they could be dangerous. Of course you are going to cry that’s ludicrous .

Yup and that’s exactly the point outside of your personel fear everything you have stated is based on conjecture at best and a claim for a manufacturing standard as a reason for it. When the manufacturing standard is not a QC standard it’s strictly a manufacturing standard .

Any company can get ISO certs for their manufacturing if they are willing to spend the money for the certs. It does not automatically make their quality better or their QC great.

There is more to it than that and quite honestly I have been in manufacturing small time. If all companies were ISO certified many small cnc businesses would not exist.
I should add CNC businesses that supply major airplane manufacturers including U.S. government aka Air Force. How I do know this because I have dealt with some of them to make parts in the past and because I had friends who worked for them.
It’s not as simple as some of you think.

 

[Alkoran]

For what I have seen working for ABB, a big sum of what ISO (at least the 9001) does is bringing traceability so when something goes wrong, you can more easily find the root cause of the failure and know how many pieces/products/custimers are affected. It does not bring quality automatically. Sure, having checklists and whatnot helps but it doesn't guarantee it.

 

[LilPartyBox]

you keep sidestepping the fact I'm agreeing with everything you're saying about how you're not comfortable with the lack of available certifications and parts lists for the whoosh BBK and that is why you won't buy the product.

no one on this thread is disagreeing with you on that.

we are disagreeing with you on your assumptions after that. if you had just stopped at, "i would never buy a brake kit from a company that doesn't provide ISO certs or a parts list" i think you woulda earned all our respect.

but ya kept going and now we're here.

edit: and for whatever it's worth, i don't ever plan on going big brake kit for my Fiesta ST. i'll find all the other ways to increase stopping/decrease brake fade without being forced to slap wheel spacers on my ride/introduce another element to the car that Dearborn never intended (not that i'm judging anyone who does, cause i'm not)

My apologies for not acknowledging that you are in fact agreeing with most of my points. If you're disagreeing about my assumptions about Ron and Whoosh, that's totally fair. But in my defense, I'm just drawing logical conclusions with the spartan info we have on this kit. And this lack of information - whose fault is that? If i were a reseller trying to sell a cheaper alternative to a part that LIVES depended on, I'd provide MUCH more info. At the very least, not be dismissive when asked about it.

I respect this and agree on the most part. Though using iso9000 , 9001, 9002 as some proof of quality control is slightly on the I lack engineering knowledge side. ISO is strictly a manfacturing spec and does not quantify quality control.

In fact Rota Wheels have ISO9001 spec for years it has not kept them from breaking and breaking catastrophically on many occasions. where is the so called quality control lilpartybox is claiming it represents . It’s not their because iso is not a quality control spec it’s a manufacturing spec that people like to lean on to signify quality control i.e. somewhat of a fallacy with how people interpret it.

It‘s actually pretty well documented on the web and even got the joking catch phrase friends don’t let friends run Rota’s. Yet Miata guys track Rota’s constantly. High end wheels tend to bend without breaking and just go out of round.

If you want to use iso to make sure a product is safe you would rule out a lot small company’s like. Pierce motorsports for instance , a lot of small performance manufacturers make great parts that are precision cnc’s to spect but are not iso 9000 .

Plus a lot of suspension manufacturers including MeisterR which you( as do I as well) run lilpartybox are not iso9000 certified! oops better go take off your coilovers right now they are not iso they could be dangerous. Of course you are going to cry that’s ludicrous .

Yup and that’s exactly the point outside of your personel fear everything you have stated is based on conjecture at best and a claim for a manufacturing standard as a reason for it. When the manufacturing standard is not a QC standard it’s strictly a manufacturing standard .

Any company can get ISO certs for their manufacturing if they are willing to spend the money for the certs. It does not automatically make their quality better or their QC great.

There is more to it than that and quite honestly I have been in manufacturing small time. If all companies were ISO certified many small cnc businesses would not exist.
I should add CNC businesses that supply major airplane manufacturers including U.S. government aka Air Force. How I do know this because I have dealt with some of them to make parts in the past and because I had friends who worked for them.
It’s not as simple as some of you think.

Let's go point by point here:

1. ISO 9001 includes QC. Here is an excerpt from one of the members that provide certification. I found MANY other sites that speak to ISO including quality control.

An ISO 9001 Quality Management System is a consistent way of doing things which ensures that your products or services meet your customers’ needs.

Improving your Quality Management System (QMS) to the level required by the ISO, strengthens your business performance; helping to protect it from whatever challenges lie ahead. It also helps to increase your market share and profit potential.

ISO 9001 Quality Management System | ISO Certification | ISO Quality Services Ltd (isoqsltd.com)

Standardizing manufacturing and holding it to a higher standard is obviously a form of quality control. That's not debatable. ISO is the big deal it is because it helps ensure that whatever is being built is held to a higher standard.

2. Rota or any wheel can break under the right circumstances. No wheel is invincible. Nor is any standardization infallible. But not having ANY certification at all for a BBK is way outside my comfort zone.

3. I run Pierce stuff. I wouldn't care if PM was ISO certified. If any of it were to fail, i would still be able to stop my car. It's not risking my life if my strut tower brace snaps. We are debating a very specific product. Not a good example.

4. MR is the better example. Obviously, ISO is not the end all, be all in my decision-making process. I was very clear on the fact that the 100s of good reviews influenced my decision. There aren't any good reviews for TEI. AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S ALL CONJECTURE. But it's my life, I have a right to err on the side of caution. And i urge others to do the same and i'm wrong for that? Unless there is a trove of 100s of reviews on this BBK somewhere i haven't found, ~10 people on this forum running them for what, a year or so, is nowhere near enough to place my trust in this product.

Especially when the seller is being SO opaque. Jared, from MR, was on the site almost daily answering questions and explaining anything and everything we threw at him. Remember? If that were the case for this BBK, my comments would be different. But he is indifferent and that is unacceptable. Be indifferent about an intake, not brakes.

5. And no. Not just any company can get an ISO certification. It's a fairly rigorous inspection. It's not the joke that a DOT sticker on a motorcycle helmet is. It's more accurate to say any company can PAY for the inspection, but it doesn't mean they will pass. We can go all day about ISO but the real issue is this is a no name, mystery BBK. I'm only saying ISO would help since we don't have any other source of info.

6. I believe you when you say there are US air force suppliers without certs...but the gov't, any gov't, isn't exactly the best example here lol. Tons of things are sold without a cert of any kind. And we all buy them all the time. But again, these are brakes gentleman not a shift knob.

You both continue to comment on my conjecture, but I've repeatedly admitted that it IS conjecture. I knowwww. And you're assuming the opposite of what i'm assuming. Also conjecture. That's all it is. I wish Ron would speak in more detail about the kit but that hasn't happened as of yet. But they ARE extremely uniform and perfectly precise lol.

.... Sure, having checklists and whatnot helps but it doesn't guarantee it.

Agreed. But it does help get a product closer to reliable, repeatable results and I want my brakes to repeatedly stop

 

[Ford ST]

Every time you buy something you vote it is that simple. Don't like it don't buy it no need to keep going on and on. I am going to leave it at that.

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[dhminer]

Every time you buy something you vote it is that simple. Don't like it don't buy it no need to keep going on and on. I am going to leave it at that.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

How dare you exercise such common sense?!