Coolant loss

[Kirbyjane]

Hi all,

I have recently purchased a 2014 fiesta st 2, I love it

However I seem to be losing coolant and can’t figure out where!

I have done a pressure test and combustion test which was all clear, so no leaks and no engine fumes in coolant. So I thinking it’s not head gasket!
I have also looked around the engine and can’t see no wet patches although I haven’t checked underneath so do need to get it on the ramps at the weekend.

I have also replaced the expansion tank cap as I have read these fail sometimes.

what else should I be checking? I’m at a loss!! I am no mechanic but like to think I’m a good problem solver with the help of forums, you tube and Google lol, but this is beating me!!

the guy we bought it off did say he changed a few of the pipes coming off the expansion tank as they were deteriorated but other than that it was all good.

Any advice would be great

thanks all

 

[cidsamuth]

How much coolant, i.e. how much over what time period?

Has the coolant been changed recently? If so, air pockets could be working their way out.

I know you said no puddles. Check around the water pump for seepage.

And goes without saying, but make sure you are checking parked at the same spot and the same engine and ambient temp each time to account for differences in coolant expansion/level.

 

[The_Ryan]

Check the coolant lines where they connect to the tank. My tank is cracked right there and leaking coolant from that crack across the o-ring.

 

[Kirbyjane]

I topped it up on Saturday afternoon from min level to max.

I have only driven to work the last couple of days so approx 70 miles and it’s dropped to just above min level again.

I checked it when I got home today when I turned the engine off. I will check again In the morning before I leave for work.

not sure if coolant has been changed the chap just said he changed the pipes from the expansion tank and nothing else.

I park the same place at work every day and on my drive, so when I am checking it’s in the same location, if that makes sense.

I will have a look at the water pump.

It’s just weird! I’ve got no power loss either or any weird smells.

I might just be worrying as I have never owned a St before I’ve only had Audi A3’s.

thank you for your reply

 

[Stkid93]

My car does the same thing.

every time I fill it to the max line and drive, it will go back down to just above the minimum line. But never below that. It’s happened probably 3-4 times now. And I’ve heard other people say it’s very common. I think as long as it doesn’t go below the min line you’re completely fine.

if it starts to go below the minimum line or goes really quick I would look at cracks in the cylinder lining causing coolant intrusion.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Several important things to think about:

Coolant/water expands and contracts quite a lot with temperature, so pay attention to when you are checking it. On a cold morning it might be at low, but after a hard drive, the level will rise. Likewise if you check it in the afternoon it will be higher than in the morning. The expansion tank level rises and falls to accomodate expansion and contraction of *all* of the coolant in the system, not just the stuff in the tank.

Second, are all the replacement hoses stock rubber lines or are there any aftermarket silicone coolant hoses? Silicone is stiffer and better at holding pressure when hot, but is actually very slightly porous to water vapor. Sometimes you can even get coolant whiffs if the car has been sitting a while which can drive you nuts. I knew it going in when I replaced basically all the hoses (radiator and also all the ancillary/heater hoses with a PumaSpeed kit), and as a result, I need to top up with distilled water every couple months, despite the system being fully purged and will holld vacuum and pressure for 10+ minutes without any leak down.

Other than those two causes, coolant loss isn’t normal.

 

[akiraproject24]

That expansion tank can get cracks and leaks around where the hose pops in. Coolant will seep out and form a crust underneath or evap off and never really show signs of leaking. If not related to temperature expansion, it may be the tank. Dude you got it from was probably trying to solve it replacing hoses but the tank should be replaced too (once it starts to leak of course). They are notorious for it. Had it happen in my Focus. On that car it was where the two pieces were stuck together.

 

[ogminlo]

Not to fear-monger, but in addition to the other suggestions removing the spark plugs and bore-scoping the tops of the cylinders might be wise to see if one is significantly cleaner than the rest. If one is much cleaner than the others, the coolant might be steam-cleaning that piston top as it leaks into that chamber via a failing head gasket.

 

[Kirbyjane]

Not to fear-monger, but in addition to the other suggestions removing the spark plugs and bore-scoping the tops of the cylinders might be wise to see if one is significantly cleaner than the rest. If one is much cleaner than the others, the coolant might be steam-cleaning that piston top as it leaks into that chamber via a failing head gasket.

If it was a head gasket wouldn’t it have shown on the combustion test I done?

 

[Kirbyjane]

That expansion tank can get cracks and leaks around where the hose pops in. Coolant will seep out and form a crust underneath or evap off and never really show signs of leaking. If not related to temperature expansion, it may be the tank. Dude you got it from was probably trying to solve it replacing hoses but the tank should be replaced too (once it starts to leak of course). They are notorious for it. Had it happen in my Focus. On that car it was where the two pieces were stuck together.

When I first started investigating the issue, there was coolant underneath the expansion tank, I wiped it clean and there hasn’t been anymore since! But like you said it could be evaporating and I will never know.

It might be worth changing it anyway just to eliminate if this is the issue, nice job for me on the weekend. lol.

thank you

 

[Kirbyjane]

Several important things to think about:

Coolant/water expands and contracts quite a lot with temperature, so pay attention to when you are checking it. On a cold morning it might be at low, but after a hard drive, the level will rise. Likewise if you check it in the afternoon it will be higher than in the morning. The expansion tank level rises and falls to accomodate expansion and contraction of *all* of the coolant in the system, not just the stuff in the tank.

Second, are all the replacement hoses stock rubber lines or are there any aftermarket silicone coolant hoses? Silicone is stiffer and better at holding pressure when hot, but is actually very slightly porous to water vapor. Sometimes you can even get coolant whiffs if the car has been sitting a while which can drive you nuts. I knew it going in when I replaced basically all the hoses (radiator and also all the ancillary/heater hoses with a PumaSpeed kit), and as a result, I need to top up with distilled water every couple months, despite the system being fully purged and will holld vacuum and pressure for 10+ minutes without any leak down.

Other than those two causes, coolant loss isn’t normal.

This is why I’m concerned! I topped it up to max on Saturday and it is now showing just above minimum and I topped it up the week prior!
I keep saying to my other half it’s not right to lose that much coolant in that space of time, he just shrugs his shoulders and says he doesn’t know. Lol

this is why i joined this forum for advice and started investigating myself.

I will have a closer look at the weekend at the hoses and get underneath the car to see if I can see anything, I was going to get the dye stuff to put in and see if I can find any leaks that way.

mid I can’t find anything obvious this week end it will have to go to a garage for further investigation cause I’m at a loss. Lol

thank you for your reply

 

[ogminlo]

If it was a head gasket wouldn’t it have shown on the combustion test I done?

I was loosely remembering this thread and the related recall that affected 2014-2015 MY FiSTs and other 1.6L EcoBoost vehicles from 2013-2015. That lead to cracked heads though, much more severe.

 

[Stkid93]

@Kirbyjane

At some point ford added a coolant level sensor on the fists due to coolant getting too low causing the blocks to overheat.

the main thing is to not let the coolant get too low. Whatever the issue is, if the coolant gets too low that’s how the cylinders crack. The over heating puts a lot of stress on the block. And the spots in between the cylinders are too thin due to the coolant slit. And once the cylinder liners crack you need a new short block.

I believe that started in 2015 but it may be worth looking into, to see if your car has that. And if you don’t, I would would look into adding one yourself.

Again, if the coolant isn’t going below the minimum line. I’m not sure you have anything to worry about. The level will go up and down depending on factors. And like i said every time I have topped up my coolant . It always ends up going back down to the Same level each time (slightly above the min line). But never gets any lower than that. Sometimes it will rise but it will never go below that mark. Mine is a 2017 so if my coolant ever gets too low I’ll get the warning light, which is a little piece of mind knowing my coolant should never get low enough to overheat the block.

Also another good thing to check is your oil. Check it to see if you are getting coolant in your oil. Which is really bad. If that’s happening you should get it fixed asap. The oil will be a very milky brownish color if there’s any coolant in it. (Picture attached)

 

[rallytaff]

I have to say that I've been lucky with my 2014 car. Never overheated, never had a coolant leak until the mechanic noticed a small leak and bad hoses when I had the timing belt, etc, done at 107,400 miles. The car will most definitely outlive me, so whoever buys it after I'm gone doesn't have to worry for a very long time.

 

[Intuit]

This car has a very complicated cooling system. When you drain it, will only get about half out.
Even then I spent months topping off after a coolant drain/swap. Guessing part of the reason may be, it's not entirely about how many drive cycles it takes, it's the peak temp for that drive cycle.

There's a little hose at the top of the reservoir... (somebody else's photo)


Anticipating the need to bleed and add more, especially on my first refill, I kept adding more and more, allowing coolant to run down that line. Air would bubble the coolant entering that line. It seemed to take a lot. This greatly reduced the number of post service necessary top-offs.

This most recent refill though...
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/unable-to-pull-vacuum-on-cooling-system-resolved.28344/
... I did a vacuum refill. IIRC I didn't need to top-off afterward. Level was steady all year but I think I might've added some with the deep frigid weather we had earlier this year.

Some coolant loss just seems to be normal, probably because the cap releases excess pressure... which BTW, is why you'll never really need to worry about an "overfill". The system will simply push excess pressure, out. Hot coolant of course is very corrosive so you'll want to keep that in mind. I have the passenger side engine mount frame rail protected against rust... as well as the surfaces behind the headlamps. Saltwater gets there and just sits.

 

[khill3000]

I'm having the same issue. Every time before I drive I check coolant and I find that I'm having to top it off almost every day for the past week. Took it to a local garage and it passed a pressure test and I bought a uv dye kit to see if there's an external leak, but nothing so far.
Did you figure your leak out yet?

 

[Kirbyjane]

I'm having the same issue. Every time before I drive I check coolant and I find that I'm having to top it off almost every day for the past week. Took it to a local garage and it passed a pressure test and I bought a uv dye kit to see if there's an external leak, but nothing so far.
Did you figure your leak out yet?

Hi, unfortunately not

I have just purchased a uv dye kit going to see if that shows up anything over the weekend.
If not, I am at a total loss!!! It will have to go into a garage for further investigation to see if they can find an internal leak.

its so frustrating!!! I don’t want to start replacing parts if it doesn’t solve the problem but at the same time I just want it solved!!

I just want to be able to Drive my St to its potential when I can, at the moment I’m trying to drive it like it’s just a standard fiesta because im worried putting my foot down might cause more damage if something serious is wrong!!

If I figure it out or get it solved I will post on here, it might then help others in our situation.

 

[SteveS]

If the coolant isn't going out anywhere then it is getting into a cylinder and getting steamed away.

 

[Intuit]

IIRC the system holds an impressive 8 qts. Keep track of how much you're actually adding. You may find that in the relative scheme of things, you're adding very little. I figure there are at least a couple of reasons the service manual has us do a vacuum refill. Keep adding per what I mentioned above...

 

[Ford SVT & ST]

Hi, unfortunately not

I have just purchased a uv dye kit going to see if that shows up anything over the weekend.
If not, I am at a total loss!!! It will have to go into a garage for further investigation to see if they can find an internal leak.

its so frustrating!!! I don’t want to start replacing parts if it doesn’t solve the problem but at the same time I just want it solved!!

I just want to be able to Drive my St to its potential when I can, at the moment I’m trying to drive it like it’s just a standard fiesta because im worried putting my foot down might cause more damage if something serious is wrong!!

If I figure it out or get it solved I will post on here, it might then help others in our situation.

Thank you for bringing this up to discuss!! It seems that there are alot of people that have had the same issue. I checked the TSB and found this specifically for the 2014 FiST
I trust that your mechanic has already reviewed this. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
060000 ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING

RECORD_ID: 1938345
Bulletin Number: SSM 47587
Replacement Service Bulletin Number: N/A
NHTSA Item Number: 10148728
Date Posted: 10-15-2018
Component Name: 060000 ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
Make: FORD
Model: FIESTA
Year: 2014
Date Added: 11-19-2018
Summary: 2014-2017 Fiesta, 2015-2018 Focus, 2018-2019 Ecosport vehicles equipped with a 1.0L EcoBoost engine may exhibit coolant consumption,white smoke and/or a runs rough condition. Refer to the extended coolant pressure test in Workshop Manual (W

and here is the RECALL INFO:
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING: ENGINE

Running Sequence Number: 123487
Campaign Number: 17V209000
Make: FORD
Model: FIESTA
Year: 2014
MFR Campaingn Number: 17S09
Component Name: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING: ENGINE
Manufacturer: Ford Motor Company
Begin Date of Manufacturing: 01-22-2014
End Date of Manufacturing: 05-27-2014
Vehicle, Equipment or Tire Report: V
Potential Number of Units Affected: 208584
Date Owner Notified: 01-05-2018
INFLUENCED_BY: MFR
Manufacturers of Recalled Vehicles: Ford Motor Company
Report Received Date: 03-27-2017
Record Creation Date: 03-29-2017
Regulation Part Number: N/A
Federal Motor Safety Standard Number: N/A
Summary: Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling certain 2014 Escape, 2014-2015 Fiesta ST, 2013-2014 Fusion and 2013-2015 Transit Connect vehicles equipped with 1.6L GTDI engines. If the vehicle is started and driven with an insufficient level of coolant within the engine cooling system, the engine cylinder head may overheat, crack and leak oil.
Consequence: If the cylinder head cracks and leaks oil, the oil may contact a hot engine or exhaust component, increasing the risk of a fire.
Remedy: Ford will notify owners, and dealers will install a coolant level sensor and the supporting hardware and software, free of charge. Interim notices informing owners of the safety risk were mailed April 21, 2017. The recall began on January 5, 2018. Owners may contact Ford customer service at 1-866-436-7332. Ford's number for this recall is 17S09.
Notes: Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.
Recall Component ID: 000068251001893926000000128
Manufacturer-Supplied Component Name: N/A
Manufacturer-Supplied Component Description: N/A
Manufacturer-Supplied Component Part Number:

Having the Information at your fingertips makes it waaaay easier to diagnose/rule out the obvious.
Hope this helps!!!