E30 vs 93 reliability

[Stkid93]

Gents,

started a separate thread pertaining to sticky bigger turbo reliability on e30 vs 93. This thread will be similar but for stock turbo.

please post your cars miles and whether you run e30 or 93. And if you have had any major problems with your car (replacing the motor, cracked cylinder lining,

I have a theory that card running e30+ will be much safer and more reliable due to knock resistance. I don’t know about our cars but I know knock is what kills almost every single Subaru, it’s what destroys the ringlands and I image knock and beat are what destroys our motors as well. Ethanol helps tremendously with both of these. this is why I only run e30+ on my fist and would NEVER drive a Subaru on 93

 

[FiestaSTdude]

My Fiesta currently has 104k miles on it, I’ve owned it since 42k and I’ve run 87, 93, 93 with a gallon of e85, and e30 (with an e30 tune of course!).
I haven’t had any major issues with my engine (yet!) and I push it pretty hard sometimes. I would say that the tuner probably is an important factor in reliability. Also I definitely wouldn’t run e30 without being tuned for it, otherwise you’d be running lean.

 

[gtx3076]

48000 miles almost exclusively on e30.

 

[Stkid93]

yea an e30 tune is a must, while the ecu can adjust fuel trims to meet air to fuel it can only do so much. And e30 also requires different timing as it burns slower. I think the key when it comes to big turbos is using e30, but keeping the power levels conservative. That way you get the e30 benefits. If you use e30 but then tune it to the ragged edge, it brings the reliability right back down because you are pushing more power and making more heat, using e30 while tuning to 93 power levels or a conservative e30 tune is like having a huge built in buffer. The more aggressive you go the more you wear that buffer down.

 

[M-Sport fan]

42K miles and 6.5 years on 93 exclusively, except for a brief time in the summer when there was an E85 station within a half hour of where I used to live in Pennsy, when I ran like an E20 blend, until it went away about 4 or so years ago.

This car has been on the factory tune since day one when I bought it ordered and took delivery of it in 10/16.

No engine problems so far, but I do not maniacally monitor the OAR and ignition corrections like so many on here do, so I have no idea what is going on as far as that metric goes.

LSPI can be one of the factors which will destroy our ring lands if there is a severe case of it going on, and it is not due solely, or exclusively to lack of octane, but more so by 'lugging' the engine at low revs in high boost mode.

There are high grade full synthetic oils and injection cleaners (as well as yes, the walnut shell blasting of the intake valves) which help to prevent this, but NOT lugging these engines at all, in the first place, is the best prevention.

 

[Stkid93]

@M-Sport fan

Yea but I feel like everyone that is on this forum or knows anything about cars knows that. Yet engines continue to blow on all sorts of cars. So unless people are intentionally ignoring the “do not lug” rule. That’s probably not the issue. Knock on the other hand can happen incredibly randomly due to many factors. Lspi happens because of 1 thing(lugging) and so it’s easily avoidable

 

[Erick_V]

Been running E30 for the last 4.5 years (since about 15-20k). No regrets, no issues. Original owner and hit 76k today. Hundreds of autocross runs, a couple track days and plenty of hooning. I keep telling myself that when the stock turbo dies I’ll upgrade. 5 years of 27+ peak psi in Texas heat and she’s still going strong lol

 

[Stkid93]

@Erick_V

you have never over heated during any of your events in the heat? I know e30 helps to a point but damn. You on stock radiator or aftermarket? What year do you have I’m curious if you are post “overheating issue fix”

 

[FiestaSTdude]

@M-Sport fan

Yea but I feel like everyone that is on this forum or knows anything about cars knows that. Yet engines continue to blow on all sorts of cars.

I don’t hear about that many engines blowing to be honest. There’s always going to be some cars that will have issues maybe due to a manufacturer defect but I really don’t hear about that many blown engines. My theory for the occasional blown engine is that some people are pushing the ragged edge of what these engines can handle, like 350-400hp with big turbos.
Another thing, I doubt you’ll see that adding E85 helps with reliability from the data you will get on the forum, because it’s my understanding the most people run ethanol blends to increase horsepower not create a safety buffer.

 

[Erick_V]

@Erick_V

you have never over heated during any of your events in the heat? I know e30 helps to a point but damn. You on stock radiator or aftermarket? What year do you have I’m curious if you are post “overheating issue fix”

2016. Never had overheating issues on the stock rad, even at autocross. I was one of the lucky ones. Now have a Mountune Rad and run 70/30 with water wetter, hottest I saw was 230 after a 20 minute session on track.

 

[Stkid93]

@FiestaSTdude

I can see your point and would tend to agree with you however this particular thread is discussing enhanced reliable using e30 on the stock turbo, not bigger turbos. I made a different thread for this same topic when talking about bigger turbos. So even if people aren’t “intentionally” going for safety by using e30. E30 won’t knock, and if it does it won’t be anything like 91/93 knock, and should protect against all types of preignition(lspi) and detonation, so It should still be far safer than pump even if you are pushing more power. (Unless you are pushing the power to the limit of the engine)

example- a fist pushing 225/300 to the wheels running e30 on a stock turbo should be far safer and more reliable than a fist pushing 210/260 to the wheels on 91/93. E30 has been said to be more than enough octane to get past the knock threshold and that’s not even taking its cylinder cooling ability into play.

now if we are taking about a big turbo fist on e30 pushing 400/400 to the wheels. That probably won’t be more reliable than a fist running 300/300 on 93. Even though one is running e30, it’s so much closer to the danger zone of the motor power wise, so it heavily counteracts the e30 benefits.

 

[ORANGEST]

Quick question, I've got a 2018 with one previous owner... downpipe, exhaust and intake on the stock turbo... I have yet to throw on an aftermarket intercooler or get an AccessPort\Tune, but I'm planning on doing that this summer... I've always run it on 93 - what difference would there be, if any, running E10 or E85 on it instead? What's the recommended daily driver fuel for a non-tuned Fiesta ST?

 

[Ford ST]

Quick question, I've got a 2018 with one previous owner... downpipe, exhaust and intake on the stock turbo... I have yet to throw on an aftermarket intercooler or get an AccessPort\Tune, but I'm planning on doing that this summer... I've always run it on 93 - what difference would there be, if any, running E10 or E85 on it instead? What's the recommended daily driver fuel for a non-tuned Fiesta ST?

93. Do not run E85/E30 without a tune. 93 is what you want. Most gas is E10.

 

[Stkid93]

@ORANGEST

You can safely get away with adding a gallon ish of e85 on a 93 tune. I wouldn’t do more than 1 1/2 gallons tho. plenty of people do it for knock protection and track days. If you want to run e30 you will need a tune. the difference between the numbers can be a little misleading, peak gains will be able 10-15 horsepower and 40 torque. But in some areas of the powerband you will see much more. Dizzy did a dyno of his test car on 93 and then e30 and saw that at around 3000 rpm’s he was making 40+ more horsepower and 50+ more torque. So it’s not all about peak numbers, running e30 will get you more power throughout the entire power band and some areas benefit more than others. But peak difference you will see about 20 horsepower and 40 torque depending on mods.

but it’s not all about power either, running e30 makes the car feel so much better and happier. It runs smoother, never knocks, sounds better, boosted direct injected cars love ethanol especially when running high boost levels or high compression ratios.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

@ORANGEST

You can safely get away with adding a gallon ish of e85 on a 93 tune. I wouldn’t do more than 1 1/2 gallons tho. plenty of people do it for knock protection and track days. If you want to run e30 you will need a tune. the difference between the numbers can be a little misleading, peak gains will be able 10-15 horsepower and 40 torque. But in some areas of the powerband you will see much more. Dizzy did a dyno of his test car on 93 and then e30 and saw that at around 3000 rpm’s he was making 40+ more horsepower and 50+ more torque. So it’s not all about peak numbers, running e30 will get you more power throughout the entire power band and some areas benefit more than others. But peak difference you will see about 20 horsepower and 40 torque depending on mods.

but it’s not all about power either, running e30 makes the car feel so much better and happier. It runs smoother, never knocks, sounds better, boosted direct injected cars love ethanol especially when running high boost levels or high compression ratios.

during the summer when its 101-104f outside I throw a gallon of e85 in every 3-4 fill ups, its not a performance adder but the car has much better manners and I don't feel it pulling power nearly as often. Anecdotal, I know.

I typically fill + gallon of e85, then refill with 91 at a quarter tank 3 times, then run it all the way down, fill + gallon of e85, etc.

 

[the duke]

This car has been on the factory tune since day one when I bought it ordered and took delivery of it in 10/16.

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[Prolific NaSTy]

during the summer when its 101-104f outside I throw a gallon of e85 in every 3-4 fill ups, its not a performance adder but the car has much better manners and I don't feel it pulling power nearly as often. Anecdotal, I know.

I typically fill + gallon of e85, then refill with 91 at a quarter tank 3 times, then run it all the way down, fill + gallon of e85, etc.

Are you doing this on a OTS Cobb 93 tune or a custom tune? I guess my question is if it’s safe to do this method on the OTS map.

Im trying to map out how I want to move forward with the car and eventually an E30 protune

 

[M-Sport fan]

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CORRECT!

As this is my only single car (unlike most others on here), so if I grenade the engine, I am walking everywhere I need to go (no public transportation around here, and I will not chance my bicycle being left outside of places, even well locked), and selling off the rest of the car as parts.

That being said, I anticipate trying the supposedly 'safest' of the tunes in the near future (Monster Tuned Adapt-X).

Sometimes I am sorry I did not just go with the fully warrantied MP215 right from the get-go after delivery of this car.

 

[Stkid93]

@M-Sport fan

I don’t know a tune about adapt x, but I don’t consider that the safest tune and I think a lot of people would agree with me. When you are dealing specialty cars where there were very few made you gotta be careful with who tunes the car. tunes are very important. In the fists case it’s a direct injection open deck motor with an extremely complex ecu. And coolant slits in between the cylinders and a potential for overheating. Many tuners have said the ford ecu is one of the most complicated they have ever worked with and a lot of tuners won’t even touch them because if that.

now I’m not going to get started In a war with who’s the best or most reliable, tune+ And dizzy are the 2 biggest. I went with dizzy and can tell you this, been driving the car for 3 months and 4K miles and I’ve never once had a negative ignition correction. And I monitor my accessport every single time I drive.

 

[Capri to ST]

CORRECT!
Sometimes I am sorry I did not just go with the fully warrantied MP215 right from the get-go after delivery of this car.

I presume you know that you can still get that tune. I got it about a year after I got the car, and was only partially motivated by the fact that it preserved the warranty. My main reason was that I figured if it preserved the warranty, then it would most likely preserve the reliability of the car. It took them a hell of a lot of work to have a tune approved by Ford, and it's very similar to or the same as the tune that Ford did on the higher performance European ST200. It's also a set it and forget it type of tune, I didn't want to do data logging and have to mess with it.
There are obviously other tunes that give you more power, but the Mountune MP215 gave me a nice extra bump of power, some nice extra sound from the new lower air box, and peace of mind feeling that the reliability of the car is preserved.