Getting Dealership to Replicate Overheating

[Clint Beastwood]

Just a thought - if you have access to a flir camera you could probably snap a few pics of your radiator to look for cold spots, that'll be a decent way to find out if there's an internal blockage. I don't have one anymore but it *was* a super handy thing to have for finding uninsulated walls, plumbing blockages, etc. without having to do "surgery".

Also, it's fun to pee while watching through flir - 10/10 would buy again.

Yeah, I actually have the Whoosh V3 intercooler waiting to be installed for the past month, b4 the overheating started. I guess I could just go ahead and get the upgraded radiator as well, and get it installed the same time. Thanks for all the inputs! I think I was trying to justify getting a new car, but I love the FiST. It's just that the Ford dealerships I've dealt with are horrible considering I'm still way under warranty.

To play devil's advocate, they really can't get warranty reimbursement/authorization if they can't replicate an issue, and "intermittent" issues are just as (if not more) frustrating for them than they are for you. Often they believe you and want to help you, but if they don't meet certain criteria for replication of the issue the tech can be disciplined or fired for filing a claim without meeting those criteria - they can't acknowledge they believe you because they *have* to side with their company. Calling ford customer care and making a case with them (fully documented of course) doesn't necessarily get a dealership in trouble, sometimes it simply gets them an authorization to replace a part while bypassing the issue replication criteria.

Chances are the techs working on these cars *know* the radiators are undersized, but if they can't replicate the issue their hands are tied. I don't know what Ford might do to fix it (lower temp t-stat?) but it's probably worth calling customer care. I'd make it a case of "this issue happens but the dealership can't replicate it" and not a "the dealership is horrible blah blah" - I've always had better luck obtaining "exceptions" when sticking to the facts and leaving my feelings about a dealership out of it.


The techs:

to be honest i have been looking for an opportunity to use that picture

 

[SrsBsns]

Just a thought - if you have access to a flir camera you could probably snap a few pics of your radiator to look for cold spots, that'll be a decent way to find out if there's an internal blockage. I don't have one anymore but it *was* a super handy thing to have for finding uninsulated walls, plumbing blockages, etc. without having to do "surgery".

Also, it's fun to pee while watching through flir - 10/10 would buy again.



To play devil's advocate, they really can't get warranty reimbursement/authorization if they can't replicate an issue, and "intermittent" issues are just as (if not more) frustrating for them than they are for you. Often they believe you and want to help you, but if they don't meet certain criteria for replication of the issue the tech can be disciplined or fired for filing a claim without meeting those criteria - they can't acknowledge they believe you because they *have* to side with their company. Calling ford customer care and making a case with them (fully documented of course) doesn't necessarily get a dealership in trouble, sometimes it simply gets them an authorization to replace a part while bypassing the issue replication criteria.

Chances are the techs working on these cars *know* the radiators are undersized, but if they can't replicate the issue their hands are tied. I don't know what Ford might do to fix it (lower temp t-stat?) but it's probably worth calling customer care. I'd make it a case of "this issue happens but the dealership can't replicate it" and not a "the dealership is horrible blah blah" - I've always had better luck obtaining "exceptions" when sticking to the facts and leaving my feelings about a dealership out of it.


The techs:

to be honest i have been looking for an opportunity to use that picture

So, I got the car back from the dealer yesterday. They couldn't replicate the problem. They let it idle and it was fine (which I knew was the case) and then they said they drove it for 14 miles and couldn't get it to overheat. It's been hotter and more humid than usual here the last few days as well and the car was fine.

The dealer suggested that I take a picture of the temp gauge when I overheat next because that would be the "proof" they need. They said that they couldn't really do anything without being able to find evidence of the overheating. But they did acknowledge that the cooling systems on these cars are not great. I did have my AP running and was using it to monitor temps, but I wasn't datalogging and wasn't sure about referencing the AP to the dealer.

I asked about installing a bigger radiator and the techs were supportive of that idea. However, they also recommended that I take it to the mountains to get it to overheat and then take a picture of it... they recommended this because I'm at about 48K and 3 months/12K miles away from my warranty expiring. Additionally, they added that unless an aftermarket part can be tied back to a failure, it wouldn't affect my warranty status, and they "couldn't imagine that an upgraded radiator would cause any problems."

I've decided that I'm just going to upgrade the radiator. It just sucks that this problem does seem to be largely hit or miss for people. And for the ones where "miss" is the case, they're required to spend at least another $500 to make sure the car stays as cool as it should from the factory.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

So, I got the car back from the dealer yesterday. They couldn't replicate the problem. They let it idle and it was fine (which I knew was the case) and then they said they drove it for 14 miles and couldn't get it to overheat. It's been hotter and more humid than usual here the last few days as well and the car was fine.

The dealer suggested that I take a picture of the temp gauge when I overheat next because that would be the "proof" they need. They said that they couldn't really do anything without being able to find evidence of the overheating. But they did acknowledge that the cooling systems on these cars are not great. I did have my AP running and was using it to monitor temps, but I wasn't datalogging and wasn't sure about referencing the AP to the dealer.

I asked about installing a bigger radiator and the techs were supportive of that idea. However, they also recommended that I take it to the mountains to get it to overheat and then take a picture of it... they recommended this because I'm at about 48K and 3 months/12K miles away from my warranty expiring. Additionally, they added that unless an aftermarket part can be tied back to a failure, it wouldn't affect my warranty status, and they "couldn't imagine that an upgraded radiator would cause any problems."

I've decided that I'm just going to upgrade the radiator. It just sucks that this problem does seem to be largely hit or miss for people. And for the ones where "miss" is the case, they're required to spend at least another $500 to make sure the car stays as cool as it should from the factory.

Bummer

It's unbelievable to me that a car is released onto us roads with the inability to not overheat. Thats what proving grounds are for!

 

[Dpro]

Yeah, I actually have the Whoosh V3 intercooler waiting to be installed for the past month, b4 the overheating started. I guess I could just go ahead and get the upgraded radiator as well, and get it installed the same time. Thanks for all the inputs! I think I was trying to justify getting a new car, but I love the FiST. It's just that the Ford dealerships I've dealt with are horrible considering I'm still way under warranty.

Ya I am lucky we have Galpin. The dealership I bought my car from is far. So Galpin is like half the distance. Though ya dealerships suck for the most part beyond absolute warranty work its a why bother situation. Lol

 

[Dpro]

Bummer

It's unbelievable to me that a car is released onto us roads with the inability to not overheat. Thats what proving grounds are for!

Ya it is and as good as Fords can be Ford NA still has issues. I also think no one thought twice about the car.. It is the same mindset that allowed all the DCT trans cars into the marketplace when the design engineers were telling them that it was not ready and a terrible idea.
Problem is bean counters. They had so much invested into the DCT it was like it cost to much to scrap would be my guess.
Same mindset for the rad. Ordinary Fiesta probably has no overheat issues. ST’s of course run hotter but hey they designed it in Europe with the stock radiator it will be fine. Except not as many hot spots in Europe as North America.
They ran the ST through proving grounds, IN EUROPE!

So we all know the easy fix for this is put in a bigger Aluminum radiator. Less than 7k on my car and I did it. Rather be safe . Mods that insure reliability are a good thing!

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Ya it is and as good as Fords can be Ford NA still has issues. I also think no one thought twice about the car.. It is the same mindset that allowed all the DCT trans cars into the marketplace when the design engineers were telling them that it was not ready and a terrible idea.
Problem is bean counters. They had so much invested into the DCT it was like it cost to much to scrap would be my guess.
Same mindset for the rad. Ordinary Fiesta probably has no overheat issues. ST’s of course run hotter but hey they designed it in Europe with the stock radiator it will be fine. Except not as many hot spots in Europe as North America.
They ran the ST through proving grounds, IN EUROPE!

So we all know the easy fix for this is put in a bigger Aluminum radiator. Less than 7k on my car and I did it. Rather be safe . Mods that insure reliability are a good thing!

I'm really surprised my Abarth never overheated - but IIRC the stock rad was actually pretty beefy. It was so absurdly hot under the Abarth's hood that really thin hoseclamps would warp and if you took off the thermal blanket under the hood the paint on the hood would peel. That car *really* benefited from hood vents big time - but I don't think the FiST would benefit nearly as much, it just needs a real radiator.

Does the EU multi-core radiator fit our USDM fists?

 

[spedy7]

So, I got the car back from the dealer yesterday. They couldn't replicate the problem. They let it idle and it was fine (which I knew was the case) and then they said they drove it for 14 miles and couldn't get it to overheat. It's been hotter and more humid than usual here the last few days as well and the car was fine.

The dealer suggested that I take a picture of the temp gauge when I overheat next because that would be the "proof" they need. They said that they couldn't really do anything without being able to find evidence of the overheating. But they did acknowledge that the cooling systems on these cars are not great. I did have my AP running and was using it to monitor temps, but I wasn't datalogging and wasn't sure about referencing the AP to the dealer.

I asked about installing a bigger radiator and the techs were supportive of that idea. However, they also recommended that I take it to the mountains to get it to overheat and then take a picture of it... they recommended this because I'm at about 48K and 3 months/12K miles away from my warranty expiring. Additionally, they added that unless an aftermarket part can be tied back to a failure, it wouldn't affect my warranty status, and they "couldn't imagine that an upgraded radiator would cause any problems."

I've decided that I'm just going to upgrade the radiator. It just sucks that this problem does seem to be largely hit or miss for people. And for the ones where "miss" is the case, they're required to spend at least another $500 to make sure the car stays as cool as it should from the factory.

Sounds like you have a pretty decent dealer. When it comes to unreplicable problems though, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't when it comes to replacing parts that are known to be faulty to keep customers happy. Seems like they should've replaced the radiator and t-stat off the bat and sent you on your way if they couldn't find an obvious problem. Another possibility is your tune - my coworker has a '16 FiST as well (lucky SOB also found a set of black OEM wheels for $400 with new tires) and put a tune on his. A/C quit working one day and the techs working on it couldn't find the cause. One then suggested removing the tune he had (been installed for months with no problems) and all was well, so there could be a coding/communication issue that is keeping something from not working like it should - just food for thought. I've got family up in Big Bear, and that's a steep slope. Your car shouldn't be overheating at all going up there unless you have a demanding tune. Been up to the mountains near where I live in ~70-80* temps and never had a problem, but it's not as steep.

Ford is quite uptight when it comes to aftermarket parts, but like said will only deny a claim if that aftermarket part is the cause. If you do replace the radiator - I'd suggest a new t-stat while you're at it as insurance.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Sounds like you have a pretty decent dealer. When it comes to unreplicable problems though, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't when it comes to replacing parts that are known to be faulty to keep customers happy. Seems like they should've replaced the radiator and t-stat off the bat and sent you on your way if they couldn't find an obvious problem. Another possibility is your tune - my coworker has a '16 FiST as well (lucky SOB also found a set of black OEM wheels for $400 with new tires) and put a tune on his. A/C quit working one day and the techs working on it couldn't find the cause. One then suggested removing the tune he had (been installed for months with no problems) and all was well, so there could be a coding/communication issue that is keeping something from not working like it should - just food for thought. I've got family up in Big Bear, and that's a steep slope. Your car shouldn't be overheating at all going up there unless you have a demanding tune. Been up to the mountains near where I live in ~70-80* temps and never had a problem, but it's not as steep.

Ford is quite uptight when it comes to aftermarket parts, but like said will only deny a claim if that aftermarket part is the cause. If you do replace the radiator - I'd suggest a new t-stat while you're at it as insurance.

Oof t-stat replacement looks like an obnoxious amount of work to do on a car still under warranty I miss the “pop off radiator cap, take out old tstat pop in new tstat replace cap” process.


I think that tune/ac situation is maybe a car that got a newer firmware than the tune was built for - dunno about FiST specifically but I’ve seen it happen with others. It’s crazy to me how open Ford ecu’s are after spending years dealing with Italian magneti Marelli ecu encryption. Want a flash? Take out your ecu, send it to the tuner, they’ll clone it to a spare factory ecu (thousand dollar part) then send both back, *then* you can start tuning. Better pray that stock ecu doesn’t get lost in the mail on the way there!

 

[SrsBsns]

Sounds like you have a pretty decent dealer. When it comes to unreplicable problems though, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't when it comes to replacing parts that are known to be faulty to keep customers happy. Seems like they should've replaced the radiator and t-stat off the bat and sent you on your way if they couldn't find an obvious problem. Another possibility is your tune - my coworker has a '16 FiST as well (lucky SOB also found a set of black OEM wheels for $400 with new tires) and put a tune on his. A/C quit working one day and the techs working on it couldn't find the cause. One then suggested removing the tune he had (been installed for months with no problems) and all was well, so there could be a coding/communication issue that is keeping something from not working like it should - just food for thought. I've got family up in Big Bear, and that's a steep slope. Your car shouldn't be overheating at all going up there unless you have a demanding tune. Been up to the mountains near where I live in ~70-80* temps and never had a problem, but it's not as steep.

Ford is quite uptight when it comes to aftermarket parts, but like said will only deny a claim if that aftermarket part is the cause. If you do replace the radiator - I'd suggest a new t-stat while you're at it as insurance.

Yeah, I'm not mad that they didn't throw parts at it. Based on my own super-scientific experimenting, I didn't expect them to find anything wrong with the car. I really am convinced that I'm just pushing the limits of the cooling system. I do think that the tune is more demanding on the motor, but the first time I overheated at Palomar Mountain, I was 100% stock except for a catback and drop in filter. I would say the inclines there are similar to the roads on Big Bear.

I was running the Stratified tune the week before when I was stuck in traffic forever and I had the car idling for hours at a time and it never overheated, so I'm assuming that things are working as they should.

One of the techs suggested that because I was following a truck, I wasn't getting enough airflow, but I don't think that's the case. He also suggested that I cut up my front grille to let more airflow in, but the previous owner had already done that, so nothing should be obstructing airflow to the radiator.

I would say that my only real issue with this dealership trip would be that they had my car from Saturday to Thursday just to say that they didn't do anything. So I didn't have to pay anything except for the Uber trips to and from work.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Yeah, I'm not mad that they didn't throw parts at it. Based on my own super-scientific experimenting, I didn't expect them to find anything wrong with the car. I really am convinced that I'm just pushing the limits of the cooling system. I do think that the tune is more demanding on the motor, but the first time I overheated at Palomar Mountain, I was 100% stock except for a catback and drop in filter. I would say the inclines there are similar to the roads on Big Bear.

I was running the Stratified tune the week before when I was stuck in traffic forever and I had the car idling for hours at a time and it never overheated, so I'm assuming that things are working as they should.

One of the techs suggested that because I was following a truck, I wasn't getting enough airflow, but I don't think that's the case. He also suggested that I cut up my front grille to let more airflow in, but the previous owner had already done that, so nothing should be obstructing airflow to the radiator.

I would say that my only real issue with this dealership trip would be that they had my car from Saturday to Thursday just to say that they didn't do anything. So I didn't have to pay anything except for the Uber trips to and from work.

Oof they didn’t toss you a rental?

 

[SrsBsns]

Oof they didn’t toss you a rental?

Nope. They couldn't even give me a shuttle home. I was pretty disappointed with it.

I have a bike, so I rode most days making the issue pretty small, but that was inconvenient. And they gave me the car back dirty. She wasn't super clean when I brought her in, but definitely wasn't that dirty.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Nope. They couldn't even give me a shuttle home. I was pretty disappointed with it.

I have a bike, so I rode most days making the issue pretty small, but that was inconvenient. And they gave me the car back dirty. She wasn't super clean when I brought her in, but definitely wasn't that dirty.

That sucks - my dealership will call me a lyft to get home/to work/etc and to get back to them, or if it's going to be a few days they kick down a rental car. I just thought that was standard practice.

 

[SrsBsns]

That sucks - my dealership will call me a lyft to get home/to work/etc and to get back to them, or if it's going to be a few days they kick down a rental car. I just thought that was standard practice.

That was my expectation as well, especially given the length for which they held the car. There were at least two days where they didn't even get a chance to have a tech inspect it. So, for someone without a second mode of transportation, it could have been expensive to pay for their commute. I let the dealership know and their explanation looked a lot like the picture you posted earlier.

 

[Ford ST]

That sucks - my dealership will call me a lyft to get home/to work/etc and to get back to them, or if it's going to be a few days they kick down a rental car. I just thought that was standard practice.

I don't understand what it is with Ford dealerships and not giving out rentals.Ford seems to have a very low standard for franchising a dealership. The local Volkswagen dealership even gives rentals to people with old cars just getting work done. Mazda always gave my Wife a car to drive.


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I don't understand what it is with Ford dealerships and not giving out rentals.Ford seems to have a very low standard for franchising a dealership. The local Volkswagen dealership even gives rentals to people with old cars just getting work done. Mazda always gave my Wife a car to drive.


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Wow I must’ve been lucky. The only time I had an issue was when they had no loaners and the local enterprise had no fords available (fords rental policy they said), so they lyfted me home and back when work was done. I wonder if my dealership is just rad, or if others are lazy. The loner/rental is billed to ford warranty so there must be a mechanism for it. I do know that demographically speaking people in my area would lose their shit without at least *some* option. Worst case, when I had to rent a car, it was only 30 bucks a day.

 

[Dpro]

I only got a loaner when I had to take my car back a second time for the warranty work. The first time I was on my own.
Though I really think it was a matter of speaking up. If I had stated I need a loaner because the dealer is like 20 miles from here. Yes its worth it.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I only got a loaner when I had to take my car back a second time for the warranty work. The first time I was on my own.
Though I really think it was a matter of speaking up. If I had stated I need a loaner because the dealer is like 20 miles from here. Yes its worth it.

Wow maybe it is a dealership thing. They don’t give me one right away, but as soon as it’s definitely not a same day turnaround they interrupt my game of overwatch I’m playing on my laptop in their biz center to get me outta there lol.

They have a nice business center for customers with desks and hookups and nobody is ever in there lol.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

By overwatch I meant important business dealings

 

[SrsBsns]

I only got a loaner when I had to take my car back a second time for the warranty work. The first time I was on my own.
Though I really think it was a matter of speaking up. If I had stated I need a loaner because the dealer is like 20 miles from here. Yes its worth it.

Yeah, I think if I would have pushed, I could worked something out. But I'm not sure. Service wasn't their strong suit and after having the car there twice, I would really like to avoid it if possible. But that's the way to do it. You have to push them because they don't really care.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Yeah, I think if I would have pushed, I could worked something out. But I'm not sure. Service wasn't their strong suit and after having the car there twice, I would really like to avoid it if possible. But that's the way to do it. You have to push them because they don't really care.

Maybe I got the hookups because I'm the only person in OC that doesn't yell

I bring 'em donuts and stuff.