Woods247 BrokeFiST Build

[M-Sport fan]

And custom suspension, custom tubular twist beam, relocated suspension mounting points, solid steering rack bushings, more weight loss, etc. Then its done.

Does the bolded above put one into a much higher class/run group for most of the open track sanctioning bodies??

 

[cidsamuth]

So Woods ….

I also have the TB front crash bar, and I have opened up the stock grill, as it appears you did.

However, there are a number of credible people who claim opening the grill actually hurts the cooling. What’s been your experience?

My first track day isn’t for a few more weeks, and I don’t expect ambient temps to be high enough at that time for it to matter. But, I think I’m going to use Gorilla tape across the bottom and tape as much as I can, if nothing else for the aero benefits …. ala NASCAR. Then, pull strips of tape off based on the temps I see.

 

[Jabbit]

If you want to get technical, the grill should only be open enough so that cooling isn't impacted. Opening the grill up won't hurt cooling - it will help cooling to a point until it starts to hurt aero.

 

[cidsamuth]

If you want to get technical, the grill should only be open enough so that cooling isn't impacted. Opening the grill up won't hurt cooling - it will help cooling to a point until it starts to hurt aero.

It’s the part about the cooling effects of opening it that seems to be of debate. Your point seems logical …. but other credible folks have said it actually hurts cooling (in addition to hurting aero). The argument is that it disrupts air current and pressure in a negative way, and that Ford had it blocked off for a reason.
Personally, I think Ford blocked it to hide that ugly ass crash bar

 

[Fusion Works]

Well since you are going sequential:
https://www.xtrac.com/product/p1113-4wd-rally-gearbox/

Then add this:
https://www.xtrac.com/product/p532-super-2000-rear-differential/

If you are gonna go there, might as well go all the way.

 

[Fusion Works]

It’s the part about the cooling effects of opening it that seems to be of debate. Your point seems logical …. but other credible folks have said it actually hurts cooling (in addition to hurting aero). The argument is that it disrupts air current and pressure in a negative way, and that Ford had it blocked off for a reason.
Personally, I think Ford blocked it to hide that ugly ass crash bar

This, in the stock application, there is no airflow path through that lower part of the "grill" so no since in having it be open just to have air run into the crash beam.

Since I am the only person who has built a proper ducted system for the OEM opening, who knows what really works best. I will learn more about on track performance in the spring when I hit Barber.

 

[Woods247]

So Woods ….

I also have the TB front crash bar, and I have opened up the stock grill, as it appears you did.

However, there are a number of credible people who claim opening the grill actually hurts the cooling. What’s been your experience?

My first track day isn’t for a few more weeks, and I don’t expect ambient temps to be high enough at that time for it to matter. But, I think I’m going to use Gorilla tape across the bottom and tape as much as I can, if nothing else for the aero benefits …. ala NASCAR. Then, pull strips of tape off based on the temps I see.

I opened mine because I have a taller DHM IC and my car and I were a lot slower back then. Surely it’s less aerodynamic but it’s also not ducted so maybe that’s something I should consider. The hood vents were installed to evacuate air from under the hood and I’m confident they’ll work. If my top speed increases on Monday I’ll know. I intentionally left power levels, wheels and tires the same. I don’t have access to pressure sensors or knowledge of how to use them so don’t expect numbers on a spread sheet from me lol. If the car goes faster around the track, it works. I’ll let you know. I’ve been searching for a stock grill but all I get is PMs from scammers. I’ll probably close it off at the stock line with aluminum or something.

 

[cidsamuth]

I opened mine because I have a taller DHM IC and my car and I were a lot slower back then. Surely it’s less aerodynamic but it’s also not ducted so maybe that’s something I should consider. The hood vents were installed to evacuate air from under the hood and I’m confident they’ll work. If my top speed increases on Monday I’ll know. I intentionally left power levels, wheels and tires the same. I don’t have access to pressure sensors or knowledge of how to use them so don’t expect numbers on a spread sheet from me lol. If the car goes faster around the track, it works. I’ll let you know. I’ve been searching for a stock grill but all I get is PMs from scammers. I’ll probably close it off at the stock line with aluminum or something.

Im going to use the tape method that NASCAR uses (or used to use?). I’ll tape the grill to the same open level as stock. Then add tape and see how it affects temps to close up the area. Then, maybe I’ll circle back and open the grill up by pulling the tape completely and see if temps really rise.

I don’t think anyone would argue the aero benefits of having more tape and a smaller opening. What seems to be in question is whether less tape (more opening) helps or hinders cooling.

 

[Woods247]

Im going to use the tape method that NASCAR uses (or used to use?). I’ll tape the grill to the same open level as stock. Then add tape and see how it affects temps to close up the area. Then, maybe I’ll circle back and open the grill up by pulling the tape completely and see if temps really rise.

I don’t think anyone would argue the aero benefits of having more tape and a smaller opening. What seems to be in question is whether less tape (more opening) helps or hinders cooling.

I’m interested to see what you find. My car has a Mishimoto radiator and thermostat as well. Both are seemingly effective at keeping temps down on the hottest southern US days. The grill is a critical piece of aero so if the stock has no impact on temps I’d say it’s best. I’ll have more time this evening to search for posts showing data suggesting it hinders cooling and aero performance. Lots of family fun this weekend!

 

[Woods247]

In our clubhouse garage with millions of dollars worth of cars there’s one worth millions of dollars that’s roped off 😂

 

[the duke]

What the fuck.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Well? How did the new aero work?

 

[Woods247]

Well? How did the new aero work?

It’s sort of hard to tell for a few reasons but I didn’t gain as much top speed as I’d hoped for. Top speed into 10a was 133mph. I was hoping for +140mph but my corner exit speed out of T7 was hindered by a severe lack of grip. That particular turn is a slow 90 degree 3rd gear roll to WOT and my tires just blew off every time I got into throttle. Two of my tires started delaminating (they’re heat cycled out) on the outside. I may have too much negative camber in the front now too but the tires were worse than I’d expected. I’ll be back with a fresh set of RT660s in a couple of weeks to try again. I’ll be at slower tracks before I get back to RA but aero isn’t really effective anywhere else I drive.

I spent time tuning suspension after switching to heavier springs. The new 8k/6k combo is so much better. The DNA control arms and beam bushings do give better feedback but it wasn’t THAT noticeable at Road Atlanta. I suspect I’ll feel more from them at AMP and Barber in the coming weeks since both of those tracks are like giant AutoX courses.

Circling back to the aero, I think I need to make a plate to block off the lower part of my grill like stock or find a stock grill and swap it. I won’t have time to build ducting anytime soon so reverting back is worth testing. I need to try removing the canards at Road Atlanta as well because they really increase drag. I was more focused on dialing my suspension yesterday so I didn’t bother taking them off. I may swap my wing too. I don’t need that big ass 70” wing Johnny put on there. 😂 55” should be plenty but I think most of my drag is coming from the nose, wheels and floor. Good thing is I still have more fiddling to do so I won’t get bored. All this is pointless with shitty tires though. 😂 And DAMN they’re expensive now!

 

[Fusion Works]

It’s sort of hard to tell for a few reasons but I didn’t gain as much top speed as I’d hoped for. Top speed into 10a was 133mph. I was hoping for +140mph but my corner exit speed out of T7 was hindered by a severe lack of grip. That particular turn is a slow 90 degree 3rd gear roll to WOT and my tires just blew off every time I got into throttle.

This is where the "rear stiff" setup on FWD race cars comes into play. Your rear spring rate (and damper rebound on the fronts) can help keep weight from transfering off those front tires on corner exit. Also you will find front tires don't go away as fast with a rear stiff setup.

I am thinking REALLY hard about using April 10 at Barber to test a couple of different setups. Maybe run the B8 Setup with some stock springs and my custom valved stuff. Maybe a morning and afternoon setup. That will require a bunch of prep time before I go though. Have to do a full corner balance on my parts then remove them and then fix the alignment for the B8 parts or vice versa. That would mean thrashing at lunch time to get the car converted to the opposite setup and re-aligning the car trackside. Ick.

 

[Woods247]

That’s the outside of the driver front. These tires had good tread left but they’re hard from too many heat cycles. I knew they’d suck but figured I’d keep tire’s consistent after making so many other changes. I assume the cut happened when I drifted into the curbing in T12 but it could’ve simply been fatigue. I’m picking up a Longacre pyrometer this week and will use it to get actual numbers after a hot lap so we can dial in pressure and camber trackside. It’s too bad adjusting camber on these cars is such a pain in the ass. Could be worse though..

We’re discussing the possibility of an open trackday this year. I’ll let you know if it happens. That’s the only convenient way to test.. DEs are too crowded and sessions are frequent. AMP will allow two “guest” test days per year for non members for $250/day and it’s open track with very little traffic. Might be a good option for you. I’m considering it but I have to disconnect my RCM there because of false crash detection in T16. I actually need to test traction control settings with that disconnected though. I planned to do that at Barber 4/10.

 

[Fusion Works]

You are over working the front tires. DUH.

I wish Little Talledega wasn't such a shitty surface now. That track was so much fun and easy to rent, plus testing was easy because I have thousands of laps there.

 

[Fusion Works]

How much negative camber are you running?

 

[Woods247]

How much negative camber are you running?

It used to be -3 driver -2.8 passenger but not its over -3. I’m putting it on GTE’s rack to see exactly what it is next week. My guess is -3.5ish. It’s definitely toed out too and I want to zero that to keep it from being so darty under power.

 

[Woods247]

…or I’ll do what I always do and adjust my driving to it 😂

 

[dhminer]

That’s the outside of the driver front. These tires had good tread left but they’re hard from too many heat cycles. I knew they’d suck but figured I’d keep tire’s consistent after making so many other changes. I assume the cut happened when I drifted into the curbing in T12 but it could’ve simply been fatigue. I’m picking up a Longacre pyrometer this week and will use it to get actual numbers after a hot lap so we can dial in pressure and camber trackside. It’s too bad adjusting camber on these cars is such a pain in the ass. Could be worse though..

We’re discussing the possibility of an open trackday this year. I’ll let you know if it happens. That’s the only convenient way to test.. DEs are too crowded and sessions are frequent. AMP will allow two “guest” test days per year for non members for $250/day and it’s open track with very little traffic. Might be a good option for you. I’m considering it but I have to disconnect my RCM there because of false crash detection in T16. I actually need to test traction control settings with that disconnected though. I planned to do that at Barber 4/10. View attachment 54178

Not sure how far you are from it, but Carolina Motorsports Park re paved the whole track and is a great spot for testing now that the surface isn’t shit. We typically rent the place out for a day once a year. If you’re interested in making the trip north I’ll keep you in the loop on timing.