Negative Corrections and Positive OAR under heavy loads

[Mibag]

Hello Fiesta ST Forum

I am having some issues currently and I am hoping someone can help me track down the culprit.
I am getting some gnarly Negative Corrections across all cylinders, and my OAR spikes when trying to go WOT.

Some back story here as I believe it matters Highly.
My Fiesta is a 2014 with 67k on the ODO. It was running fine but then I went to get a Turbo installed (Whoosh Hybrid), with an Airtec Manifold and Whoosh 3” Catted DP.
When uninstalling the stock manifold, the shop found a broken manifold stud. They attempted to drill it out but ultimately hit a cooling jacked in the head. They owned up and replaced the head in full along with doing a new timing belt, water pump, and tensioner from ford (The entire whoosh timing job kit).
I flashed on my new tune from Tune+ once the car was back together and bolted up.
I am getting a jumpy idle and misfires.
Under heavier load, I am getting negative corrections across all cylinders, and my OAR is jumping to +1 almost instantly.
Adam advised checking the plugs to ensure they weren’t over-torqued. I Checked them (Ruthenium) and after seeing no issues, I reinstalled and torqued to spec. This did not fix the issue.
I ran my tank to empty to double check gas as that was the next thing Adam asked to make sure I didn’t have a blonde moment at the pump. I did a 93 with a gallon and a half of Ethanol just in case the prior tank was just dog water.
Issue still persisted.
I then switched to iridium plugs just in case there was an issue, but same exact thing.

Here is a paste bin to my current mod list…
https://pastebin.com/KjAH8wB0

I am getting no Knock Readings currently according to my AP and AFR looks okay as far as I can tell.
Now I am left chasing the issue and I need some help / guidance from the community to help me track this issue down so I can put down my damn power already!

I appreciate anyone’s help in advance.


Big Update :
Ended up getting a new tensioner (from Ford) and belt for good measure before checking everything.
Timing was off by a half tooth to a tooth. Undid everything, lined everything back up and in time, turned the engine a couple times manually to verify it stayed in time. Bolted it back up and then tried to crank it.
It sputtered but did not start. Pulled the Crank Pulley and re-aligned the magnet and viola, we started up.
Now for the big question… did this fix it?
Yes Sir!
I read somewhere else on here about an issue with a bad tensioner and the same off timing issue so it seems to be a semi- common thing with the tensioners.
now to get back to tuning and then working my way to a transmission overhaul!

 

[Mibag]

Adding on :
It does try to bog down while idling but shoots back up.
On startup it jumps to 1500 and slowly rises to 2-2500 rpm.
Misfires are at cold start mainly but level out or stop all together when warm.
The OAR does creep back down if I cruise at about 3k rpm and the boost is highly audible.
I do get positive corrections of +1 right before going WOT or close to.
I am back on the Ruthenium plugs as there was no change with the iridiums.

If someone needs a log to help, just let me know what to grab and I will get it!

 

[Mibag]

OH AND ONE MORE THING

There is NO CEL except for the high flow cat just throwing an emissions p0420 code.

 

[dhminer]

I’m no expert but it almost sounds like the timing is off. Hopefully some of the pros will chime in

 

[Mibag]

I’m no expert but it almost sounds like the timing is off. Hopefully some of the pros will chime in

i hope they do too.
I see issues like this in the search, but no one ever reports back on the final fix in detail.
I plan on changing that if I can get to the bottom of it.
My mechanic did say he locked everything up when doing timing, but I have also seen people say the timing job is finicky on these overall.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

What are the Vct-i Actual and Vct-e actual reading at idle on the Cob AP3 after the car has warmed up? They should be at almost ZERO with a slight variation. Post what your reading are with a screenshot of the Cobb ap3 when you can.

 

[Mibag]

What are the Vct-i Actual and Vct-e actual reading at idle on the Cob AP3 after the car has warmed up? They should be at almost ZERO with a slight variation. Post what your reading are with a screenshot of the Cobb ap3 when you can.

2 screenshots for you.
1 is after a short drive with only a bit or higher acceleration.
1 is after turning the car off for 5 minutes and starting back up after warm.

No clue what these parameters are without looking yet but context clues are leading me to you agreeing with bad timing?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

2 screenshots for you.
1 is after a short drive with only a bit or higher acceleration.
1 is after turning the car off for 5 minutes and starting back up after warm.

No clue what these parameters are without looking yet but context clues are leading me to you agreeing with bad timing?

Timing is OFF* It should read at pretty much Zero or -ZERO between them two at idle when warm with a slight variation between the two.

 

[Mibag]

Timing is OFF* It should read at pretty much Zero or -ZERO between them two at idle when warm with a slight variation between the two.

Welp, looks like it’s back to the shop.
I will follow up after as well.

 

[dhminer]

Hell yeah I might have been right for once lol. Let us know what happens

 

[Mibag]

Hell yeah I might have been right for once lol. Let us know what happens

Haha will do!

 

[HAHAFiST]

I'm in a similar boat after doing my timing belt... which for certain was in time I had thought. I had notice odd timing corrections and OAR changes on my standard 91 tunes. We put in some ethanol to see if it might be fuel related and that cleared it right up, however... just recently decided to try my E30 tune and now the same issue, but specifically ony on high load situations... like a WOT pull in 4th gear starting about 2600rpm or so. I give it the beans at higher rpms... no issues whatsoever and goes back to -1.00

 

[HAHAFiST]

VCT-I & E look good at idle for me.

 

[Mibag]

Big Update :
Ended up getting a new tensioner (from Ford) and belt for good measure before checking everything.
Timing was off by a half tooth to a tooth. Undid everything, lined everything back up and in time, turned the engine a couple times manually to verify it stayed in time. Bolted it back up and then tried to crank it.
It sputtered but did not start. Pulled the Crank Pulley and re-aligned the magnet and viola, we started up.
Now for the big question… did this fix it?
Yes Sir!
I read somewhere else on here about an issue with a bad tensioner and the same off timing issue so it seems to be a semi- common thing with the tensioners.
now to get back to tuning and then working my way to a transmission overhaul!

 

[HAHAFiST]

Big Update :
Ended up getting a new tensioner (from Ford) and belt for good measure before checking everything.
Timing was off by a half tooth to a tooth. Undid everything, lined everything back up and in time, turned the engine a couple times manually to verify it stayed in time. Bolted it back up and then tried to crank it.
It sputtered but did not start. Pulled the Crank Pulley and re-aligned the magnet and viola, we started up.
Now for the big question… did this fix it?
Yes Sir!
I read somewhere else on here about an issue with a bad tensioner and the same off timing issue so it seems to be a semi- common thing with the tensioners.
now to get back to tuning and then working my way to a transmission overhaul!

Damn, you’re making me think I need to check mine now. Was your car running rough at all beforehand? I installed the new tensioner on mine when I did my timing belt, and I did have a bit of a struggle with my crank pulley in that I had a difficult time getting the crank position sensor alignment tool out from behind it after torquing it all down and so there’s a bit of force there but I don’t believe the pulley walked at all. So did you have to do the timing belt process all over again or were you able to skip some steps like locking the flywheel? I’m trying to see how I can do the same thing without having to do the whole process all over again.

 

[Mibag]

Damn, you’re making me think I need to check mine now. Was your car running rough at all beforehand? I installed the new tensioner on mine when I did my timing belt, and I did have a bit of a struggle with my crank pulley in that I had a difficult time getting the crank position sensor alignment tool out from behind it after torquing it all down and so there’s a bit of force there but I don’t believe the pulley walked at all. So did you have to do the timing belt process all over again or were you able to skip some steps like locking the flywheel? I’m trying to see how I can do the same thing without having to do the whole process all over again.

Car was running great until we did head / timing.
Started with strange idle / random reving and dropping, a ton of misfires, and some slight stutter. Was still able to give it some go but issues were decently obvious.
Diagnosed it via support here to be timing.
Redid the entire timing job to correct and make sure. Crank pulled was a quick off, align, reinstall job.

 

[HAHAFiST]

Car was running great until we did head / timing.
Started with strange idle / random reving and dropping, a ton of misfires, and some slight stutter. Was still able to give it some go but issues were decently obvious.
Diagnosed it via support here to be timing.
Redid the entire timing job to correct and make sure. Crank pulled was a quick off, align, reinstall job.

Mine runs fine after the timing job (no rough idle or anything), the only thing I am noticing is that I get OAR corrections and pulled timing if I datalog WOT in 4th gear starting at 2500rpm. Tuners are saying part of the problem is you shouldnt start that low in the rpms, that's causing some of the issues. So yeah... could be user error on my part? The knock though... is happening around 3 & 4k... But i checked VCT E and VCT I readings on the AP and it said .02 or 0.0 at idle which indicates cam phaser are correct... idk we'll see. Did you just reuse your crankbolt I assume?

 

[Mibag]

Mine runs fine after the timing job (no rough idle or anything), the only thing I am noticing is that I get OAR corrections and pulled timing if I datalog WOT in 4th gear starting at 2500rpm. Tuners are saying part of the problem is you shouldnt start that low in the rpms, that's causing some of the issues. So yeah... could be user error on my part? The knock though... is happening around 3 & 4k... But i checked VCT E and VCT I readings on the AP and it said .02 or 0.0 at idle which indicates cam phaser are correct... idk we'll see. Did you just reuse your crankbolt I assume?

New crank bolt first time around so didnt change again. If it’s showing knock though, I would check everything it tight that you touched. I did see something about passenger side motor mount causing some knock and pulled timing before so that might be worth checking out while you are poking around.

 

[HAHAFiST]

New crank bolt first time around so didnt change again. If it’s showing knock though, I would check everything it tight that you touched. I did see something about passenger side motor mount causing some knock and pulled timing before so that might be worth checking out while you are poking around.

yeah good call. i have a awr passenger mount with 70a bushings in it but I don't recall the OAR changes at the time. If i do 4th gear starting at 3k with WOT I get no OAR changes so I'm thinking I just wasn't watching this all before and now that I am paying more attention post timing belt job... I was doing the WOT logs wrong.