Fiesta ST autocross accident

[Intuit]

"If my Type R could roll just by turning the steering wheel I would sell it." When a video of a modified Civic rolling on a corner was posted along with several other factors that pointed at anything other than the vehicle modifications, the response was "I am very sorry that a started this thread. It was my first on this forum and it will be my last." He asks us to learn from it, though I got the impression the lot of us didn't learn what he believed we should've... that it is a flawed vehicle and we need to abandon it for our own safety and that of others on the roads.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Yes, one cannot expect that 'lesson' to go over 'bigly' on a site about the very car it is whole-heartedly condemning.

 

[Jabbit]

This thread needed more posts like I need more holes in my head. Can we let it sie already? Agree to disagree.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Moderators turn it off*

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Onaginata]

Not saying anything anyone else hasn't already, but I had to post as this was driving me nuts.

The thing that irks me about this is the idea that all fiestas are dangerous and a rollover risk based on one example of someone modifying their fiesta to maximize grip through stickier tires, taller sidewalls and softer springs, then rolling it. The two times I've heard about this happening, it was on virtually identical setups and in a near identical situation. Both drivers continued to add steering input through a slalom like area on the course until finally, they'd worked up enough energy to send themselves into a barrel roll. At any point in the lead up to this, he could have just stopped turning the wheel.

Making generalizations based off of too small of a sample size is an argumentative fallacy for a reason. This should serve to be a cautionary tale, no more, no less.

 

[Ecmdrw5]

I welded a 600lbs steel plate to the bottom of my car to lower the CG so I don’t roll over.

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[PunkST]

OP came to troll. And got shut down. HARD.

 

[Jabbit]

I welded a 600lbs steel plate to the bottom of my car to lower the CG so I don’t roll over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't roll over if you can't roll in the first place!

 

[Indy_Fest]

The stock Fiesta is banned from autocrossing without mods for this reason (And the Mazda 2 I believe). It's one of the reasons I don't want to run R-comps on autocross or even on a nicely prepped surface. Luckily my local lot is a really bad parkinglot so we slide far more than digging and rolling. This is one of the things I really don't like with this car, the center of gravity is high, and the springs are stiff with high rebound.

What are you talking about? The fiesta is most certainly not banned from autocross. The car probably flipped because of the suspension modifications he made. having largers side

If you truly feel that way, you should file a request with SCCA here https://www.crbscca.com/.

God, don't feed this dude's delusions.

 

[HAHAFiST]

Old thread but I just went out this weekend on Bilstein B8 and Swift springs and felt like I could pitch the car around all day long. I'm also newer to autox so my level of aggression was probably not as intense as this guy.

 

[Dialcaliper]

NTHSA has a large database of rollover risk estimates, at least for base model cars - here's a whitepaper on the subject. The static stability factor (SSF) rating is a simple half the track width divided by CG and is the only characteristic of the car used to assess rollover risk in single and multiple vehicle accidents when combined with other risk factors unrelated to car geometry (road conditions, age of vehicle, if the driver is male or lives in Florida or other high risk state...)

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812444

The base Fiesta is in the database with an SSF of 1.29, which is on the low end of passenger cars as a whole, but is basically on par with most other narrow wheelbase compact cars and hatchbacks. Comparable cars are Toyota Yaris/Matrix (1.27), Fiat 500 (1.28), Ford MkII Focus Hatch (1.30), Honda Fit (1.32), Nissan Versa (1.28), and all are better than 95% of SUVs and Trucks with the exception of those that are on the lower side with very wide track width.

Incidentally, with a track width of 57.7", that means the base Fiesta has a CG height 22.4" inches off the ground. The ST's CG is about 0.4" lower with the same front track width, so that means the ST has an SSF of 1.31 and CG height around 22.0" at factory ride height, which might be useful info for anyone who cares about such things., especially once you know that lowering the car more than about 0.5" past the stock ride height starts to absolutely murder the front suspension geometry and roll center height

The ST is not considered a rollover risk any more than the old focus and a few other cars, which leads me to believe the hubbub about the accident in question is way overblown, and the likely cause was the factors mentioned before - the combination of bad setup from compromised suspension geometry due to lowering plus initially soft Eibach progressive springs and tall tires and a big helping of driver error, unfortunate road surface and freak circumstance.

 

[Fusion Works]

Can we stop furthering this ancedotal evidence the whole thread is based on? These cars are not roll over machines. This one incident was caused by poor driving and incoherent modifications. As Mr Caliper noted, the data is the data and there is nothing inherently dangerous about our cars.

 

[Mycooking]

Eibachs make the stance look good but not perform good. I haven't auto crossed in many years but I have tracked on courses and well I've rarely ever seen a car on eibachs not eat it in some form.

 

[the duke]

NTHSA has a large database of rollover risk estimates, at least for base model cars - here's a whitepaper on the subject. The static stability factor (SSF) rating is a simple half the track width divided by CG and is the only characteristic of the car used to assess rollover risk in single and multiple vehicle accidents when combined with other risk factors unrelated to car geometry (road conditions, age of vehicle, if the driver is male or lives in Florida or other high risk state...)

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812444

The base Fiesta is in the database with an SSF of 1.29, which is on the low end of passenger cars as a whole, but is basically on par with most other narrow wheelbase compact cars and hatchbacks. Comparable cars are Toyota Yaris/Matrix (1.27), Fiat 500 (1.28), Ford MkII Focus Hatch (1.30), Honda Fit (1.32), Nissan Versa (1.28), and all are better than 95% of SUVs and Trucks with the exception of those that are on the lower side with very wide track width.

Incidentally, with a track width of 57.7", that means the base Fiesta has a CG height 22.4" inches off the ground. The ST's CG is about 0.4" lower with the same front track width, so that means the ST has an SSF of 1.31 and CG height around 22.0" at factory ride height, which might be useful info for anyone who cares about such things., especially once you know that lowering the car more than about 0.5" past the stock ride height starts to absolutely murder the front suspension geometry and roll center height

None of the other cars listed above have ever been banned from autocross because of rollover risk, and people run them all the time, which leads me to believe the hubbub about the accident in question is way overblown, and the likely cause was the factors mentioned before - the combination of bad setup from compromised suspension geometry due to lowering plus initially soft Eibach progressive springs and tall tires and a big helping of driver error, unfortunate road surface and freak circumstance.

https://www.scca.com/pages/fastrack-news

"#15707 Fiesta ST roll-over risk
The Ford Fiesta ST meets the Rollover Potential Guidelines in 3.1. The 2011+ non-ST Fiesta models do not meet the requirements and are to be removed from the HS listing "


Please note this was in 2015 Fasttrack classing. In time this may have been revised, but this is what caused the initial "banned from stock" autocross.

 

[HAHAFiST]

NTHSA has a large database of rollover risk estimates, at least for base model cars - here's a whitepaper on the subject. The static stability factor (SSF) rating is a simple half the track width divided by CG and is the only characteristic of the car used to assess rollover risk in single and multiple vehicle accidents when combined with other risk factors unrelated to car geometry (road conditions, age of vehicle, if the driver is male or lives in Florida or other high risk state...)

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812444

The base Fiesta is in the database with an SSF of 1.29, which is on the low end of passenger cars as a whole, but is basically on par with most other narrow wheelbase compact cars and hatchbacks. Comparable cars are Toyota Yaris/Matrix (1.27), Fiat 500 (1.28), Ford MkII Focus Hatch (1.30), Honda Fit (1.32), Nissan Versa (1.28), and all are better than 95% of SUVs and Trucks with the exception of those that are on the lower side with very wide track width.

Incidentally, with a track width of 57.7", that means the base Fiesta has a CG height 22.4" inches off the ground. The ST's CG is about 0.4" lower with the same front track width, so that means the ST has an SSF of 1.31 and CG height around 22.0" at factory ride height, which might be useful info for anyone who cares about such things., especially once you know that lowering the car more than about 0.5" past the stock ride height starts to absolutely murder the front suspension geometry and roll center height

None of the other cars listed above have ever been banned from autocross because of rollover risk, and people run them all the time, which leads me to believe the hubbub about the accident in question is way overblown, and the likely cause was the factors mentioned before - the combination of bad setup from compromised suspension geometry due to lowering plus initially soft Eibach progressive springs and tall tires and a big helping of driver error, unfortunate road surface and freak circumstance.

100% - I'll knock on wood but I didn't feel any inkling of roll over being on swift spring (1" drop maximum, linear) and on bilstein B8 with stock wheels and some 215/40/17 Azenis 615k+ - Felt completely in control and didn't think for a second I was about to tip over.

 

[Dialcaliper]

https://www.scca.com/pages/fastrack-news

"#15707 Fiesta ST roll-over risk
The Ford Fiesta ST meets the Rollover Potential Guidelines in 3.1. The 2011+ non-ST Fiesta models do not meet the requirements and are to be removed from the HS listing "


Please note this was in 2015 Fasttrack classing. In time this may have been revised, but this is what caused the initial "banned from stock" autocross.

Interesting - haven’t seen that source before, but apparently SCCA has set an SSF limit as an optional qualification at 1.30, which also disqualifies some other cars like the Fiat 500 (including Abarth).

It seems like a somewhat arbitrary cutoff given that NTHSA has chosen 1.25 as the cutoff for a “4-star” rollover rating (10-20% rollover risk) probably based on much more rigorous research. 5-stars (<10% rollover risk) starts at 1.44, which is basically the right around the average for all passenger cars.

 

[gtx3076]

My car has never rolled over.

Somebody needs a driver mod.